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Section for komatsu d20,21 and similar grey market dozers

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
Good theory RRR.
Crawlake I am thinking you should be able to disconnect the tube on the cylinder and just let it hang open or covered with something for protection. No fluid other than the initial dribble should come out. If you get continous fluid and you can't hold it back with your thumb then RRR's theory of valve leakage may be right.
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
crawlake, I don't know about disconnecting and plugging those lines. It may be ok, but I am not a hydraulics expert by any means and I don't know if it would cause problems for the pump or something. Maybe someone else has more education or experience with it.

g_man, I do believe you are correct there sir. If you are not pulling on a handle, you should get no fluid from the tubing, as the steering valve assembly should not be trying to actuate the steering boost cylinder's piston. If it does produce oil under pressure, it would seem to me that the problem is in the steering valve assembly. It is going to be interesting to see what you find for sure. Let us know when you get back and have time to check it out.

And I forgot to mention in the previous post, if you remove the steering boost cylinder, be prepared to replace the gasket. I pulled both of my boost cylinders and both gaskets ripped as part of it was stuck to the cylinder and part of it was stuck to the cover it mounts to. I made new ones myself with some generic gasket material from an auto parts store, with a light coating of Permatex gasket seal in a tube. It sealed up nicely with no leaks. You may get lucky and not rip it, but it probably wouldn't hurt to hit it with a little Permatex anyway. It's some great stuff in a tube, in my opinion. I've been using it for gaskets since the 70's.
 
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Dozman

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
32
Location
ohio
Crawlake, I had a similar problem,I thought it was the small hydraulic cyl. But it turned out to be the brakes were not put on correctly.You should be able to look in the adjustment hole and see if the linkage is hooked up correctly and through the hyd. cyl. hole.(Not saying it wasn't installed properly just a little bit trickey)I learned this lesson the hard way.If you decide to take the top off here's a little tip the guys at hughes springs,Texas told me.Wrap a large plastic strap around the brake band to hold it while you set the top back on and it will almost go together by itself.And then once the top is back on,take a welding rod heat it red hot and burn the strap off through the small hyd. hole.To bad I didn't know this a week sooner could have saved me a lot of time.Best of luck! Dozman
 

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
Hello all . New guy here . I just bought a D20P-6 , and already messed it up . "A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing". Anyway , it runs fine , but it would not steer to the right . The right lever pulls back almost a foot more than the left lever . I tried to turn the adjusting bolt - it would not budge . I sprayed it with penetrating oil , and left it alone for several days . Then , I remembered that I was supposed to have it in gear to make the adjustment . The bolt now feels broken ... I've ordered manuals . I figure I'll need to do some serious wrench-turning . Any thoughts - like how or where to get a new bolt ? Thanks in advance ... Off to the woodshed ...
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
Thanks RRRancher . Its the right 'band ass'y brake' hardware - I will guess the threaded 'shaft' No.9 (108-33-32270) . Turning 'nut' No. 13 is what did it , it feels real floppy in the hole now , but it won't pull out . It didn't take a lot of force to do it . I won't know for sure until I dissemble it ... I just got the battery situation straight . I used 2 OPTIMA 34Ns . It had 2 underpowered , fried auto batteries in it - now it spins like a top . Glow-plug indicator doesn't work , though ... Yesterday , I rebuilt the blade tilting-cylinder , the seal was toast . The tip from the gentleman in Tennessee , about peening the cylinder , was a major help . Incidentally , a claw-hammer will work ...
 

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
The manuals arrived ... I dissembled the right brake . Nothing broken , I guess the brake-adjusting bolt was bottomed out - no adjustment left . Torqueing it unhooked the front-end from the brake-band . I guess I need a steering-brake band to correct it ... It took a lot to free the adjusting nut . I had to use heat , and the hammer-to-the-cylinder trick worked again , while using big wrenches . Funny , it wasn't rusty , maybe it was from prior owners attempting to adjust it , myself included ... I'm going to guess that the previous owner drove around with the parking brake set , causing the pads to wear out a great deal faster than the left set ...
 

leftydave9449

New Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3
Location
lenoir north carolina
I have a D21A-6 SR # 65589. My deceased brother purchased it at auction about 10 years ago. When it was used very little and parked in the shed it was reported to have some complications with not releasing the drive clutch. I purchased it 3 months ago, part of the paint is still on the blade it only has 515 hours on it. I have it running and it goes forward and back fine however it will not steer. when i pull right steering levers very hard it will steer slightly as it begins to stall the engine. When i pull the left one it just stalls the engine. Someone has adjusted the control rods some the jam nut was loose. i have purchased a 3000 psi pressure gauge and started assembling a gauge to check the pressures. As i read some of the other post it now sounds as if i need to check filter first not sure. I removed the radiator, had a small leak repaired and re installed it. I have both full service manuals #1 & #2 So i am a little mechanically inclined but for sure don't want to do more than i need to. I would like a knowledgeable response that would suggest a step by step check list to follow to determine my problem and a list of oils filter and lubes to perform before i start using this basically new machine. thanks in advance, leftydave9449.
PS I prefer em response [email protected] if this is permissible on this sight.
 

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
Lefty, these little dozers don't actually have main drive clutches, the D20 does but not the D21. They use dry steering clutches and are real bad about rusting and sticking if they sit more than a month or two. The best thing to try is holding the steering back till just before the brakes come on, and bump into things. If your luck is real good they will break free, if not the steering clutches will need to come out.
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
Lefty, since you said it appears that someone adjusted the control linkage, I would say it is possible that you could also just have another problem. Mitch is right in that these dry clutches do tend to rust the clutch plates together if they sit up for a while, so it could very well be that. But your symptoms also sound like it could possibly be a bad adjustment. Please read post 1780 and others on page 119, in which I posted some pictures related to these adjustments.

Basically, the way it is supposed to work is when you pull back slightly on the steering handle, a plunger on the steering control valve assembly is the first thing that is actuated. When it is pushed in, fluid is routed to the steering booster cylinder, which drives it forward and actuates the clutch release, which causes the drive on that side to quit driving the sprocket on that track. It is basically free-wheeling at this time and the drive on the other side will gradually turn the dozer in the direction of the handle that was pulled.

When you pull back harder on the handle, it actuates the steering brake on that side, which stops the sprocket from turning at all, and the dozer will turn sharply in that direction due to the other track being the only one moving.

If the linkage is out of adjustment, what can happen is that the brake is actuated before the plunger is pushed in to release the clutch. So you have the clutch engaged, trying to drive the sprocket, and the brake engaged trying to stop the clutch from turning the sprocket. This causes the engine to want to stall as it hasn't enough power to override the brake, and it just bogs down.

It is pretty hard to troubleshoot this without pulling the seat so you can see the plunger and the brake lever and make sure they are being actuated in the right order. If I were you, I would do as Mitch suggested first, and try to break the plates loose. If that doesn't do it, I would pull the seat and take a look. And keep in mind that just because the plunger is pushed in doesn't mean that the valve is working and actuating the booster cylinder. There could be a problem in the steering valve control assembly or booster cylinder, although I think these are rare.

I do know for a fact that if you are really low on fluid in the main clutch compartment, which is where they get their fluid, the steering valves will have nothing to send to the booster cylinders, and they will not actuate at all, resulting in the clutch engaged and the brake engaged when the handle is pulled back hard, and the engine will bog. I had this happen several times when I had a bad oil leak and it ran low on main clutch fluid. Adding oil immediately made it start steering perfectly again. I don't think this is your problem though because you said one side steers ok, but the other causes the engine bog. I was getting it on either side when the fluid was low.

I wish you luck with it, and please let us know what you find. The more solutions we hear about here, the more we all learn.
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
Cav, I for sure don't have a lot of experience on the steering clutch/brake assembly as I have never had to pull one and work on it. But I have to wonder if the adjustment bolt will actually run out of threads for adjustment, even with a worn brake band. Are you sure it was assembled correctly so that the brake band was attached properly and the adjustment bolt was actually tightening it around the clutch? I have to wonder if it was actually adjusting it, or if it was just turning until it bottomed out.

And your thinking that the previous owner may have run it with the parking brake on makes me wonder two things. Is this possible to do? I have never used my parking brake, so I really don't know, but if it is engaged, will the dozer even move at all? And if it will, and your previous owner did this, wouldn't both brake bands be worn the same, or close to the same? I'm not saying you're wrong here, by any means. I'm just thinking out loud. I sure hope you get it running right soon, my friend. You have certainly had your share of problems. When it is all working correctly, it is such a nice feeling. I took mine out for a spin last weekend for the first time in over a month, and had a blast just moving a pile of dirt over about 30 feet or so. Sure felt good. :)

Please reply when you get it going. I'm really curious to know what you find.
 

TigerDan

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
6
Location
No. Cal.
I'm going to be putting the crankshaft back into my friend's D20P as soon as I get it back from the crank grinder. He has the shop manual but the entire chapter on the engine is missing...does anyone know the torque specs for the mains and rods?
 

leftydave9449

New Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3
Location
lenoir north carolina
d21a-6 clutches frozen

Lefty, these little dozers don't actually have main drive clutches, the D20 does but not the D21. They use dry steering clutches and are real bad about rusting and sticking if they sit more than a month or two. The best thing to try is holding the steering back till just before the brakes come on, and bump into things. If your luck is real good they will break free, if not the steering clutches will need to come out.

Thanks mitch
I checked the pressure on the the steering valves and got apx. 250 lbs.
I am in the process of pulling the clutches. Its is my intention to replace clutches and break ban as well. ii want to know this is in good repair and i will drive the machine a little ever two week to keep surfaces in good condition. Do you recoment this proceedure sence the machine has 514 hours on it
?
Thanks dave
 

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
RRR , I just received a new brake from Kent Baugh yesterday (Thanks Kent !) . I'm waiting for the rain to stop , to get started ... The brake release on my D-20 is really tricky to release . I had the notion that the parking brake was the right brake - I could be wrong . The big difference in the amount of travel in the steering levers , and the excessive wear on the right pads , led me to that conclusion . There was also 'pitting' on the steering clutch casing , where the brake is applied . On the other hand , previous owners may have turned to the right , more than to the left ... On another note , is it practical to change the blade-control levers to a single joystick ? My valve-body leaks , so I'll be addressing that eventually ...
 

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
RRR , the rain stopped long enough for me to tear into it , after pressure-washing all of the years of baked-on grease , which I should have done when I first checked it out ... Your recent posts about steering opened my eyes a little bit more ... The brake is not really that worn , although I think the linkage is installed properly . I unhooked the springs and spun it around -- it is evenly-worn , so I plan to leave it alone , and not pull the steering clutch ... There is fluid in the bottom . I thought it was water last week , it is oil . The main-clutch was low on oil , which you mentioned is used for the steering-pistons . The left side is dry . I think the excessive travel in the right lever is because the O-ring inside the steering is worn , allowing the fluid to pass into the chassis without applying enough pressure to release the steering clutch . The O-ring is intact , doesn't have noticeable flat spots , but it seems too loose on the cylinder . More later ...
 

cavalier

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
19
Location
SC
Occupation
steelworker
The O-ring appears to have been the main issue ... The previous owner claimed that he had owned the unit around 15 years , and had just installed new steering-clutches - all it needed was 'a little adjustment' . Google revealed that he had purchased it at a local auction 2 years ago , and put 500 hours on it . I bought it , delivered , for what he had paid for it ... Anyway , NAPA had a thermostat-housing O-ring that was the same diameter , but slightly thicker . I had to use a vise to seat the piston , hopefully , its not mangled ... While I wasn't 100% sure that the brake assembly was properly installed , I am now , thanks to Dozman's idea . I did that before bolting down the housing ... The right-lever still pulls out further than the left . I'll sleep on it tonight , and try some more adjusting before I close up the floor . The big thing is that the steering works , and I didn't need to remove the steering clutch . I'll save the new brake for next time . Thanks all - its margarita time ...
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
TigerDan, check post number 1826 where I linked a place you can pay for and download the manual in PDF format for $8.95. That is a heck of a price, if you ask me. The pages are done very well. The pictures leave a lot to be desired for details, but they were the same way in an original shop manual I looked at when I bought my dozer. It seems they didn't do a great job of copying photos they took when they published the manual, so I don't think you can get any better than the PDF version. I have a hardcopy of a manual, and I also bought the PDF version. I only use the PDF version now, as it is better quality than the copy of the original manual I have.

Cav, you may be right on the parking brake. I really don't know, but it seems strange to me that they would design it to only lock one steering brake. But if it works, it works. I'm not going to try to second-guess the Japanese engineers that designed these dozers. Simplicity seems to be commonplace with them, in my opinion. Glad you are getting close to putting it to work for you. I believe the margaritas are in order, for sure.

Good luck on yours, Lefty, and let us know what you find.
 

tpitt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
104
Location
California
Occupation
Heavy fire equip operator
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