Komatsu d575a vs L 2350 loader (sumo match)

[Clawed Backster]

I would be more than happy to volunteer my wheel dozer for a scaled down version of this match. Looks like the dozer needs to weigh about 51 percent of the wheeled machine's weight. So, if my wheel dozer weighs 63,000 pounds, the track dozer should weigh about 32,000 pounds. I don't know what size cat that would be, D6-D7?

 

[special tool]

I would be more than happy to volunteer my wheel dozer for a scaled down version of this match. Looks like the dozer needs to weigh about 51 percent of the wheeled machine's weight. So, if my wheel dozer weighs 63,000 pounds, the track dozer should weigh about 32,000 pounds. I don't know what size cat that would be, D6-D7?

Well - its 61%, not 51%, in the original poster's match.

So you will need a 38,500 pound dozer to equal the original question.

 

[Clawed Backster]

I was using the #'s that Vantage posted, 291,000 and 578,000.

 

[alco]

Well - its 61%, not 51%, in the original poster's match.

So you will need a 38,500 pound dozer to equal the original question.

But if you use the actual operating weights, all of the numbers will be different. It's actually 43.1%.

The listed operating weight of an L2350 in standard configuration is 586,000 lbs, or 293 tons.
The listed operating weight of a D575 is 252,600 lbs, or 126.3 tons.

So to answer the question of what size dozer you'd need to compete with the 63,000 lb wheel dozer, it would be a 27,153 lb track dozer.

Would a 27,000lb track dozer pull around a 63,000 lb wheel dozer?........... not likely.

Figure into the current Cat lineup, a rough match would be the 988H to the D6T. Do you honestly believe that a D6T is going to drag around a 988H?

 

[stock]

But if you use the actual operating weights, all of the numbers will be different. It's actually 43.1%.

The listed operating weight of an L2350 in standard configuration is 586,000 lbs, or 293 tons.
The listed operating weight of a D575 is 252,600 lbs, or 126.3 tons.

So to answer the question of what size dozer you'd need to compete with the 63,000 lb wheel dozer, it would be a 27,153 lb track dozer.

Would a 27,000lb track dozer pull around a 63,000 lb wheel dozer?........... not likely.

Figure into the current Cat lineup, a rough match would be the 988H to the D6T. Do you honestly believe that a D6T is going to drag around a 988H?

Why not ask Cat? send them a mail and post the reply if for nothing else ,we might get a laugh from them....

 

[DRMCO D600]

Hello there,
I can tell you that when I was an apprentice diesel fitter in a mine in Queensland in the late 1970's, the guys put a 834 rubber tyred dozer and D9H blade to blade on a hard packed haul road and although not a witness to the event I was told the 834 squatted right down flattening the tyres out and held its own with the D9H.

I think many variables come into play when attempting this.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[special tool]

But if you use the actual operating weights, all of the numbers will be different. It's actually 43.1%.

The listed operating weight of an L2350 in standard configuration is 586,000 lbs, or 293 tons.
The listed operating weight of a D575 is 252,600 lbs, or 126.3 tons.

So to answer the question of what size dozer you'd need to compete with the 63,000 lb wheel dozer, it would be a 27,153 lb track dozer.

Would a 27,000lb track dozer pull around a 63,000 lb wheel dozer?........... not likely.

Figure into the current Cat lineup, a rough match would be the 988H to the D6T. Do you honestly believe that a D6T is going to drag around a 988H?

Well, since THAT is almost a 50% change from the ORIGINAL post, no - that is too much.
Was he really off by that much by saying 160 and 260 tons?

 

[Clawed Backster]

I guess we wouldn't know the exact weights unless we somehow weighed both machines(not very practical). Also, the guy who hauled my wheel dozer to me when I bought it said it should weigh 48,000 pounds, but he weighed it @ a state scale on his lowboy and it was 63,000. The only explaination I can come up with is that the tires are water filled. I also wonder if the manufacturer's stated weight might be without the blade?

 

[alco]

Well, since THAT is almost a 50% change from the ORIGINAL post, no - that is too much.
Was he really off by that much by saying 160 and 260 tons?

Yeah, he was. The D575 has a listed standard operating weight of 252,600 lbs, or 126.3 tons. The L2350 has a listed standard operating weight of 586,000 lbs for the standard lift version, or 293 tons. So a difference of 166.7 tons.

This is why a little research is a good idea before stating something as fact.

 

[Vantage_TeS]

Since I kept on finding different operating weights after Brian posted his numbers and I went back to check I finally just went right to the Komatsu page. They are saying even more! 336,420 lbs and 1,150 net HP. But then when you click on "specs" it says:

Tractor weight 252,600 lb / 114580 kg including rated capacity of lubricant, coolant, full fuel tank, operator, and standard equipment.
Ground pressure 23.0 psi 1.62 kg/cm² / 159 kPa

I never heard anything back from LeTourneau which is sad as we'll only ever get to speculate without hard numbers to back our theories up. I still say the loader wins.

 

[alco]

That's about typical of Komatsu, they can't even get their own story straight...lol.

Brian

 

[willd8r]

saw a Cat 992B & D9H with a rope between them the D9 had no show

 

[footloose1952]

Terex 82-80 Dozer

I know this has nothing whatsoever to do with this Topic, but as a new member on the Forum, I am restricted to replying to existing posts only until I have replied 3 times before I can start my own post. So I'll put my new Topic here & later, I will start a New Topic.......sorry!
A model building friend of mine wants to continue his range of 1:50 scale Euclid TC-12 Dozers by going on to the next step, the Terex 82-80 dozer, the one with the twin Hydraulic rams on the nose, and with the Euclid/Terex Rippers, NOT the Ateco Rippers.. WHY.. he needs a few photos of how the rippers are attached to the rear as opposed to the Ateco type and a few measurements here & there so that he can build this model as true to the real machine as is humanly possible,,,,any help with where-abouts of one of these machines will be greatly appreciated by Bruce and make this project possible.

Thanks

Peter
Western Australia

 

[Chris5500]

I honestly believe the Komatsu D575 would beat the LeTourneau L-2350 in a tug of war. In this scenario, machine weights have got nothing to do with it. Its all about tractive effort, ground pressure and the surface area of the machine that is in contact with the ground at any one time.

I do not know the tractive effort of either machine, but I do know people who work for both Komatsu Tech Services and LeTourneau so I will endeavour to find out.

I also know that LeTourneau's have a LINCS load monitoring system, which if you pick up too heavy a load with the bucket, or you have reached maximum tractive effort, you will get a warning alarm and cannot propel the machine any further until the effort has been reduced, or until you have emptied the bucket. I have also heard of LeTourneau L-1850's being pushed into the face by a Caterpillar D11R because they are so hopeless in hard rock faces.

And for the record, Komatsu WA1200-3 > Entire LeTourneau range. But thats a whole different argument!

Edit:

For a rough idea before I find out the actual specs of the machines in question here I found the tractive effort specs for a WA1200-3 and a D474-5EO. They are as follows:

WA1200-3 - 1127 kN 115000 kg
D474-5EO - ~ 1150 kN 125000 kg

Edit #2:

D575-3 - ~ 2200 kN 230000 kg
L-2350 - Still unknown

 

[catc15]

I side with you Chris5500 on this one. The dozer should in theory win both matches.

 

[JimInOz]

I know this has nothing whatsoever to do with this Topic, but as a new member on the Forum, I am restricted to replying to existing posts only until I have replied 3 times before I can start my own post. So I'll put my new Topic here & later, I will start a New Topic.......sorry!
A model building friend of mine wants to continue his range of 1:50 scale Euclid TC-12 Dozers by going on to the next step, the Terex 82-80 dozer, the one with the twin Hydraulic rams on the nose, and with the Euclid/Terex Rippers, NOT the Ateco Rippers.. WHY.. he needs a few photos of how the rippers are attached to the rear as opposed to the Ateco type and a few measurements here & there so that he can build this model as true to the real machine as is humanly possible,,,,any help with where-abouts of one of these machines will be greatly appreciated by Bruce and make this project possible.

Thanks

Peter
Western Australia

Peter,
Didn't the IH museum in Southern WA have a Terex Dozer ?
I think it was featured on one of those tractor show videos in the 90s.

Jim

 

[alco]

In this scenario, machine weights have got nothing to do with it. Its all about tractive effort, ground pressure and the surface area of the machine that is in contact with the ground at any one time.

Tractive effort and ground pressure are directly related to the weight of the machine. The higher the weight of the machine, the higher the possible coefficient of friction, which in turn will allow for higher tractive effort. The same basic idea applies to ground pressure. The higher the weight of the machine, the more weight applied to the surface area, and therefore, the higher ground pressure.

So, sorry, but that kind of blows the whole comment out of the water.

 

[OCR]

Komatsu d575a vs L 2350 loader (sumo match):

Coefficient of friction:

More than anybody needs, or, wants to know... lol

But check that BAM (material) out... very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=Search&search=coefficient of friction


OCR...

 

[Chris5500]

Tractive effort and ground pressure are directly related to the weight of the machine. The higher the weight of the machine, the higher the possible coefficient of friction, which in turn will allow for higher tractive effort. The same basic idea applies to ground pressure. The higher the weight of the machine, the more weight applied to the surface area, and therefore, the higher ground pressure.

So, sorry, but that kind of blows the whole comment out of the water.

Ground pressure is directly related to machine weight AND ground contact area. Increasing the size of the contact area on the ground in relation to the weight decreases the ground pressure and decreasing the size of the contact area will increase the ground pressure. Never the less, the tractive effort of a D575A-3 is 230000 at 1.62 kg/cm2 - thats the spec.

Tractive effort is directly related to the engine torque and final drive ratio and of course the coefficient of friction at any particular time.

Unfortunatly, LeTourneau do not print the specs we are after on their product brochure so we cannot compare.

When I said weight had nothing to do with it, what I was trying to say was the fact a machine weighs 300ton doesnt necessarily mean the tractive effort is going to be higher than a machine weighing 200ton as some people in this thread are lead to believe.

The fact remains that until we get the tractive effort spec of the 2350 we wont know, so the case is still unresolved!

P.S. I still like you alco

 

[Gavin84w]

I,m gunna go a little off topic too with the ground pressure thing but i was having a discussion one day about large diggers sitting up on benches and someone chimed in saying no way an RH400 if it was made as a digger could sit up on a bench, it would be to heavy and while on paper it would be say a 1000 ton machine the ultimat footprint via shoe width would determine its ground pressure and i am sure it could be made to be around the same as any large digger 996,5500 etc.

Mind you would be a ride and a half walking her up the bench, done it in a PC5500 enough times and you have to have your wits about you.