Jerky, Touchy Pilot Joystick Controls - Name Brands??

[SpringPilot]

Hello Everyone - I work for a spring manufacturer based in Oregon. I designed and manufactured a spring mod kit that retro-fits externally over the plungers under the joystick boots on remote actuated control systems. The kit is popular on the cheap imported minis because friction zones on those pilot controls can be challenging to find.

I searched this forum and I see different posts talking about jerky controls on machines like the Bobcat 323-J, e42 and e45. Are these and other machines known to have touchy controls?

I also saw a post talking about electronic control systems (TBW), that they can be difficult to feather/find friction zones. Is this pervasive on the newer machines? Are some makes/models worse than others?

A friend of mine is a union operator and is currently running a newer CAT 323 excavator with electronic controls. When tracking the excavator any kind of distance with the foot controls, the joysticks will start to bounce and flop quite a bit. The joystick movement slows down travel speed. I am planning to test the spring mod on his machine.

I am curious if the spring mod kit could benefit operators running name brand equipment.

 

[DDoug]

You manufactured that ^^^ ?
I just bought some of those same springs at the local hardware store to do the same thing.

 

[SpringPilot]

You manufactured that ^^^ ?
I just bought some of those same springs at the local hardware store to do the same thing.

Yes - back in April I began prototyping a kit to fit my import mini-ex. My primary design focus for my GEN2 Kit was plunger protection, pre-load (to counter bounce-back effect common on the import minis) and to see how much load I could fit in the pocket available under the sticks. I checked all these boxes and chose 17-7 stainless steel material for corrosion resistance and max tensile strength. My GEN2 Kit has performed well so far across a wide spectrum of operator experience levels.

 

[SpringPilot]

You manufactured that ^^^ ?
I just bought some of those same springs at the local hardware store to do the same thing.

May I ask what machine you installed your springs into?

 

[SpringPilot]

USE CASE: SANY SY75 - A couple days ago I received feedback from a customer who runs a land clearing / forestry mulching company. He owns a Sany SY75. He and his crew love the mod and that it "smooths everything out". While still an imported machine (I believe), much bigger and more mainstream than the smaller Chinese mini imports.

 

[SpringPilot]

USE CASE: TIGERCAT 724G FELLERBUNCHER - A customer in Louisiana installed a kit into his Tigercat 724G Feller Buncher. His "steering control was soft and a bit snappy". After his install he fed back to me recently..."Fit like a glove and a much more comfortable resistance on the sticks than factory."

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums SpringPilot.

Take a moment to read the Forum rules -

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/heavy-equipment-forums-rules-and-posting-guidelines.14195

Specifically this portion -

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This thread is your introductory thread. Thank you in advance for respecting the rules of the Forum.

 

[SpringPilot]

Welcome to the Forums SpringPilot.

Take a moment to read the Forum rules -

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/heavy-equipment-forums-rules-and-posting-guidelines.14195

Specifically this portion -



This thread is your introductory thread. Thank you in advance for respecting the rules of the Forum.

Understood thanks. Is it okay for me to add to my own thread with comments like I have been doing here? I want to make sure that I am following the rules correctly. Thanks again! I am trying not to sell at all. I am trying to learn if there are name brand machines that could benefit from my kit.

 

[HarleyHappy]

Sure, don’t mind hearing some stories. Just realize, you’re skating a fine line.
The testimonies are a bit over the top.
Why don’t you explain why your spring kits are so much better than say a Wolff spring kit upgrade, for a fine 1911 or 2011?
I can buy springs anywhere, granted the spring rates may be different.
Always thought that progressive springs would be awesome for a joystick but don’t think they make them for that application?

 

[SpringPilot]

Sure, don’t mind hearing some stories. Just realize, you’re skating a fine line.
The testimonies are a bit over the top.
Why don’t you explain why your spring kits are so much better than say a Wolff spring kit upgrade, for a fine 1911 or 2011?
I can buy springs anywhere, granted the spring rates may be different.
Always thought that progressive springs would be awesome for a joystick but don’t think they make them for that application?

All good points and I appreciate your comment very much! True, the feedback or Use Cases are anecdotal if not coming straight from the customer and crowd the "selling" line. There are also many DIY solutions, spring-based or otherwise in the forums for this particular mod. Knowing full well the "fine line" you mentioned, I did not want to violate the forum rules by blatantly volunteering (selling) why my kits are better than any other option out there. What makes my kits better? Couple of things...

First, you touch on it briefly in your response..."granted the spring rates may be different". I have a team of very experienced spring makers who waded into the design of my kit springs. My kit springs were designed specifically to retrofit onto the joystick pilot controls of my own personal mini excavator. This takes into consideration many factors such as wire diameter, OD, ID, free length, and solid height.

The other differentiator is my popular GEN2 kit includes a piston protection element. I was able to design in a coiling feature that makes it impossible for the sharp wire ends on the ends of the springs to reach the surface of the pistons/plungers. This is especially important in that bottom .250" zone at the base of the piston.

With regard to your response specifically, there are two (2) groups of people who own heavy equipment. There are a good number of very industrious DIY folks (who I admire) that are very good at creating their own solution. These folks are willing to do the work to find a more cost-effective solution of their own. Very cool! Then there is everyone else...my dealer customers, busy commercial operators, and others like me who are less-likely to spend time (and money) doing the trial-and-error iterations to land on a kit that does what my kits will do.

While I do want members of this forum and other forums/groups to become of aware of my kits, I truly am posting here to understand where in the "name brand" equipment market the mod could be a benefit. I have sold almost 2000 kits worldwide since April and I know of only three (3) customers who have installed into larger or more mainstream brands of equipment. There are the two (2) USE CASES I posted, plus a Bobcat E10 install in Switzerland that I waiting for feedback from. Thanks again @HarleyHappy !!

 

[SpringPilot]

Sure, don’t mind hearing some stories. Just realize, you’re skating a fine line.
The testimonies are a bit over the top.
Why don’t you explain why your spring kits are so much better than say a Wolff spring kit upgrade, for a fine 1911 or 2011?
I can buy springs anywhere, granted the spring rates may be different.
Always thought that progressive springs would be awesome for a joystick but don’t think they make them for that application?

Actual reviews can be browsed on my site at https://springpilot.com/products/gen2-pilot-control-spring-kit.

 

[SpringPilot]

Working on some cool pilot control spring mod enhancements. A relatively frequent concern I see/hear about from forum threads is that the springs could scratch the pilot valve plungers. For my current GEN2 kit I addressed this by incorporating a custom coiling feature that prevents the cut wire ends from contacting the chrome surface of the plungers. One of my upcoming enhancements is a protective insert that will prevent all metal-on-metal contact in the critical bottom .250" of the plunger.

 

[SpringPilot]

We built this machine "Compatibility Checker" to help people confirm if the spring mod kits will fit their controls.

Pilot Control Spring Kit

Pilot Control Spring Kits - Heavy Equipment Pilot Joystick Mod

springpilot.com

Please let me know if your model is missing or if you get an inaccurate response...brand new and a work in progress. Thanks!

 

[SpringPilot]

I am prototyping the new spring design. Excited to get them into some machines. Here is a short video of the barrel springs running.

Barrel Spring Coiling Video

 

[SpringPilot]

Here is a pilot control spring mod install video. Machine is the IRE20.

 

[Lagwagon]

Any experience with new Electro-hydraulic pilot controls?

 

[SpringPilot]

Any experience with new Electro-hydraulic pilot controls?

Good morning. Thank you for commenting in. I have a use case currently in-process. My friend, who is a journeyman union operator here in Oregon mentioned an annoying characteristic involving his CAT 323 machine. He does not like autopilot for moving that machine long distances so he will go hands free using foot pedals. He notices that without a hand on his joysticks, they will cavitate (wobble forward-backward) enough to engage that function slightly and slow down his travel speed. I had not seen under the boots of an electronic control machine to know if there are still plungers so he sent me the attached picture...looks like the universal spring-loaded plungers to me. I will dig up the video he sent and post it too.

He is not back on that site until Winter and the rainy season are done but he has a set of my spring kits to experiment with. Jury is still out but I am excited to see outcomes later in the Spring.

What are you experiencing with your system?

 

[SpringPilot]

Any experience with new Electro-hydraulic pilot controls?

I just read your post yesterday. SK210LC-10?

 

[SpringPilot]

Any experience with new Electro-hydraulic pilot controls?

Here is the video of my friend's joystick wobble on a CAT 323.

 

[SpringPilot]

Any experience with new Electro-hydraulic pilot controls?

If you have one, I would love to see a picture of your joystick under the boot(s).