Cat Hydraulic Fluid Alternative

[Nige]

The machine operates only about 150 hours a year.

ISO 32 is approximately SAE15W, not 10W. You really need an ISO 25 or thereabouts.
Change what's in the tank and plan on changing it every year, maybe twice in the first year.

is there a way to drain the pump, lines, and pistons without disconnecting or damaging anything to get as much bad oil out as possible?

Unfortunately not. Draining lines, cylinders, etc, will always involve disconnecting lines and can get very messy. It is possible, but it is neither easy nor quick.

 

[Roddy556]

ISO 32 is approximately SAE15W, not 10W. You really need an ISO 25 or thereabouts.
Change what's in the tank and plan on changing it every year, maybe twice in the first year.

Unfortunately not. Draining lines, cylinders, etc, will always involve disconnecting lines and can get very messy. It is possible, but it is neither easy nor quick.

Thank you so much for all the information.

This is the $70/pail stuff that has little information but I was scared it would damage something so I went with the Hydo 10.

 

[Nige]

I think you were right to pass on that no-name AW32. They don't even give a spec sheet for it. Always a red flag.

You may find this chart useful.

 

[Welder Dave]

The UFA AW32 is decent oil and a good price. It goes on sale for $62 a pail a few times a year. UFA sells a lot of oil and I've never come across anything negative regarding their oil. Apparently they have their own refinery. Certified appears to be a slightly lower grade oil than Motomaster oil at Canadian Tire but still decent enough. It's usually more expensive than the UFA oil. I've seen other charts where 32W is equivelant to 10W just a different oil spec. I've never seen a 0 weight that wasn't synthetic. Some skid steers call for a 10W-30 oil where TDH oil is a good option to use. If your hyd. tank is steel, you could get a magnetic heater to put on it. A pad heater that glues on is another option but more expensive. My skid steer has a hyd. oil heater but I don't use it when it's really cold out. I can't plug it in unless I get my generator started. It's usually just as easy or easier to start the machine.

 

[Roddy556]

The UFA AW32 is decent oil and a good price. It goes on sale for $62 a pail a few times a year. UFA sells a lot of oil and I've never come across anything negative regarding their oil. Apparently they have their own refinery. Certified appears to be a slightly lower grade oil than Motomaster oil at Canadian Tire but still decent enough. It's usually more expensive than the UFA oil. I've seen other charts where 32W is equivelant to 10W just a different oil spec. I've never seen a 0 weight that wasn't synthetic. Some skid steers call for a 10W-30 oil where TDH oil is a good option to use. If your hyd. tank is steel, you could get a magnetic heater to put on it. A pad heater that glues on is another option but more expensive. My skid steer has a hyd. oil heater but I don't use it when it's really cold out. I can't plug it in unless I get my generator started. It's usually just as easy or easier to start the machine.

Oh well I just poured 11 gallons of Cat Hydo into it last night. Next time maybe I will just use the UFA stuff. Would have saved me a couple hundred dollars.

 

[Mobiltech]

I think you will find on the -25 days that your hydraulic controls are pretty sluggish until it warms up. We use an arctic hydraulic oil here in the skidsteer. It is an AW15. From petrocan. Cats sells a 0w20 oil for skid steers.

 

[Roddy556]

I think you will find on the -25 days that your hydraulic controls are pretty sluggish until it warms up. We use an arctic hydraulic oil here in the skidsteer. It is an AW15. From petrocan. Cats sells a 0w20 oil for skid steers.

Yes I have noticed that, the most concerning issue being it is sluggish to stop moving and you have to make sure to stop short.

The arctic oil was a lot more money so I cheaped out.

I can live with it provided it isn't damaging anything in the machine.

 

[Nige]

Do you have any type of radiator shutter installed to limit the air flow through the cooling pack (coolant & hydraulic oil).? In winter you could even put a piece of cardboard in there to improve warm up times. The best would be a square piece of something with a small circular hole cut in the centre directly over the centre of the fan motor shaft. In that way the shaft will not experience unbalanced loads that could cause bearing failure.

 

[Roddy556]

Do you have any type of radiator shutter installed to limit the air flow through the cooling pack (coolant & hydraulic oil).? In winter you could even put a piece of cardboard in there to improve warm up times. The best would be a square piece of something with a small circular hole cut in the centre directly over the centre of the fan motor shaft. In that way the shaft will not experience unbalanced loads that could cause bearing failure.

I do not. The radiator is fully exposed. I could cover it with some cardboard. Thanks for the tip!

After the fluid change and running it for an hour it went from the chocolate milk color to just a slightly cloudy yellow when the new 11 gallons mixed with what was left in the system. A huge improvement.

 

[Nige]

I do not. The radiator is fully exposed. I could cover it with some cardboard.

It has to be a circular hole and centred on the fan shaft to avoid unbalancing the load on the fan which would result in stress on the fan motor bearings. You can make it as small as you like to start with and if temperatures get too hot for your liking simply increase the hole diameter a tad.

After the fluid change and running it for an hour it went from the chocolate milk color to just a slightly cloudy yellow when the new 11 gallons mixed with what was left in the system. A huge improvement.

That sounds promising. For future fluid changes note the comment from @Mobiltech who is from your neck of the woods regarding the availability of an 0W20 hydraulic oil from Cat. Other alternative suppliers must be out there because Cat don't manufacture oils. It would appear that Petro Canada Hydrex XV fits the bill.

 

[Mobiltech]

My concern with the 10w is that it can actually block the oil cooler flow because it gets so thick. The cardboard will definitely help . I have seen wheel loaders where the cooler goes into bypass mode and the oil in the rest of the system will actually overheat.

 

[Welder Dave]

It's not extreme cold all the time in Central Alberta. Nobody is working in -40 unless they absolutely have to. Doesn't usually snow a lot when super cold. Maybe you could put cardboard or something on the rear door a little further away from the rad? I got a suction fan to help put more heat in the cab but took it back off because unless the engine and pump compartment (and belly pan) is hospital clean, you get an awful oily kind of smell in the cab. I have put cardboard on the rad a few inches smaller in size with about a 4" hole in the middle. I figured it would still allow air flow around the outside of the rad without putting too much stress on the fan. If I was doing a lot of snow clearing I think a canvas cover that could be opened up as needed with snaps on the rear door would be good idea. Same idea like semi's have on the front grill. The colder it is, the more the grill gets covered.

 

[Welder Dave]

Oh well I just poured 11 gallons of Cat Hydo into it last night. Next time maybe I will just use the UFA stuff. Would have saved me a couple hundred dollars.

You certainly didn't hurt anything other than putting a bigger dent in your wallet. I used high end Petro Canada oil when I replaced a drive motor. Basic hydraulics I don't think the oil is as critical as if it's a hydrostat system.

 

[Shimmy1]

Well, I'm going to speak up here and say I've been down this road, and I have at least two full 55 gallon drums of Cenex Indol EH that I'm going to sell to a friend for wet kit oil. I did my due diligence, even had Nige research it for me. It is supposed to be the best hydro oil Cenex offers. I put it in an excavator, and all three of my tractors. Everything is noisy, and it takes twice as long to limber up when it's 20°F or less. It's all getting drained out and replaced with Cat HYDO. Pumps are way to expensive to run chitty oil.

That UFA stuff I'd only use to start tree piles on fire.

 

[Nige]

Basic hydraulics I don't think the oil is as critical as if it's a hydrostat system.

This is a hydrostatic drive system with a separate pump hung on the back for the implements. The oil is shared from a common tank. When the hystat drive pumps costs maybe $8k to replace you don’t skimp on oil quality - IMHO.

 

[Welder Dave]

Pretty easy to codemn an oil when you know nothing about the supplier. I was saying the same thing about using better oil in a hydrostatic system. The original question regarding 10W oil, I think the UFA is good oil. Another member on the forum has used UFA oil with no issues as well. I use a 10W-30 oil in my skid steer. UFA is I guess what you'd call a higher end farm supply. They sell Shell and Chevron oil as well. They aren't at all like a cheap no name brand and have a very good reputation. Every spring and fall they have a big oil sale and a few smaller ones throughout the year. They put pallets of oil pails on the showroom floor because they sell so much of it. Not uncommon to see people buy 3 to 5 pails at a time. They are like a Co-op and if you sign up can get better pricing and rebates sometimes. They also sell building packages and veterinary supplies. Not things a discount store would sell.

 

[Nige]

I am not condeming the oil at all. My position is simply that I would not recommend any oil for which I could not find a spec sheet. I tried and couldn't find one for that hydraulic oil, which does not mean it doesn't exist. If you can supply one, post it up. Otherwise your irritating whining is becoming tiresome.

 

[Welder Dave]

Wow, that's uncalled for! All I did was say UFA sells good oil. Here's a spec. sheet for it I found quite easily. Not my fault you couldn't find it. It would be better if they put it on the pail.

https://ufadigmtg.blob.core.windows.net/default/ufa.com/documents/product_docs/1123839_ufa_anit_wear_hydraulic_oil_aw_32_specs.pdf

 

[Shimmy1]

Wow, that's uncalled for! All I did was say UFA sells good oil. Here's a spec. sheet for it I found quite easily. Not my fault you couldn't find it. It would be better if they put it on the pail.

https://ufadigmtg.blob.core.windows.net/default/ufa.com/documents/product_docs/1123839_ufa_anit_wear_hydraulic_oil_aw_32_specs.pdf

Sorry to pile on, Dave, but that sheet is useless in the world of specs. It's the same generalization that Cenex gives for it's oil. This is a spec sheet for Mobil. I'm not a Mobil guy, but DTE 10 has a viscosity index of 164. Your UFA is 114. That's just one critical measure IMO.

Mobil DTE 10 Excel™ Series hydraulic oils

Mobil DTE 10 Excel™ Series hydraulic oils are engineered to address the lubrication demands of high-pressure industrial and mobile equipment hydraulic systems.

www.mobil.com

 

[Welder Dave]

It does show that it meets (rather than recommended for) some common specs. and approvals and isn't a crap oil like the obsolete 303 spec. that was taken off the market. I don't know if you could contact UFA and get more info or test results?? I put some in the grader that calls for 10W oil and haven't noticed any issues or unusual noise.