Buying an older excavator

[Gary Layton]

Reasonable advice. Excavators feel really weird on slopes. At least to me. And they will tip at the drop of a hat when when that boom is extended and you are at the break point of the slope.

 

[Dan Watrous]

What is "tI,i,u" in the "Komatsu PC 200 excavator with tI,i,u diesel engine" Isuzu would be great from my reading.

I read up on the progressive vs simple and see your point

 

[Dan Watrous]

Something that has not been talked about. You say you have run a backhoe for 25 hours otherwise you have an office job and your property is located in the Sierras with a lot of steep hill sides. Bigger is often better but the bigger the machine the bigger the trouble you get yourself into. Also, the bigger the machine the bigger the cost to fix when you do break it. I would suggest renting different size machines for awhile not only to get used to running an excavator but also to see what size works best for you. I'm an equipment mechanic and through the years have seen many disasters from inexperienced people buying machines that they have no clue about. Give some people a ball bearing and send them into the woods and they will be back with parts in 15 minutes. I would have rather seen a customer buy a machine because that would give me more work but in many situations, especially like this one, rentals make a lot of sense.

My plan was to rent something for a month soon and get started on widening the half mile driveway from the bottom up to the first landing area, and see how it goes. The driveway is level and has been there for a hundred years, made when California allowed logging and until it became national forest, so i won't be on a slope. A whole lot of moving dirt from uphill to downhill until I lose my thrill with excavators. Won't use fill for the driveway, just making a wider shelf into the mountain with a drainage ditch and double wide road bed. Then buy something over the winter.
But now skyking1 found 2 local machines in my budget and i have to decide if $8k on a month rental is worth it.

 

[Gary Layton]

Cool on the 2 local machines. I was scouring used eqpt. sites on the web for months, figuring that if a machine was sold by a dealer that at least it had been 'gone through' before I got it. I had a 300 mile radius, figured I would have one trucked in. I happened to notice a Craig's list For Sale ad for a machine by owner, about 15 miles from my farm. I hired a local independent HE mechanic to check it out for us. He had some good inputs but he missed the barely leaking head gasket. My son noticed that and pointed it out to the mechanic...a case where the amateur looked closer than the pro. That helped us with negotiating a price. Anyway, local can be good...just get someone who understands engines, hydraulics, undercarriages and lots of stuff I don't even know to name...awareness will be your friend.

And about slopes...I did not think I would be on slopes...then realized I have to go down (and up) a slope when I go in and out of the pond to do dredging. You will probably see something just off the road you want to pickup...and just out of reach. Hmmm....

It's hard to tell, but that is about a 30 degree pond bank slope before I get to the first mud mat.

 

[Dan Watrous]

I wouldn't be afraid to move up or down that slope with the bucket straight ahead, but wouldn't want to stop on the slope and pull a stump out perpendicular to that trail if i understand you right.

I've got a great family with 7 children, 8 grandkids so far that I want to help educate, a great business with 52 employees, no desire to ride motorcycles, start flying airplanes or desire to take risk when so many people depend on me. I have had to reacquaint myself with chainsaws because of this property, so I know I'm not perfect.

 

[skyking1]

That reminded me of the recent new homeowner member whom purchased a 235B and promptly emptied the hydraulic reservoir in the backyard soon after walking it off the transport.

And that's for sure one machine series I would not advise anyone stepping into none of the old 200 series cats.
I spent enough time on them to speak from experience. Everything that came after them in the 90s was better.
The last one I ran was for Tucci and they kept dumping money into that thing and even had GPS rigged up on it.
One thing about 235, if you have a full shift going on and you go past 8 hours it runs out of fuel. If you're trying to work 10s the fuel truck has to come during the day.

 

[excavator]

I wouldn't be afraid to move up or down that slope with the bucket straight ahead, but wouldn't want to stop on the slope and pull a stump out perpendicular to that trail if i understand you right.

I've got a great family with 7 children, 8 grandkids so far that I want to help educate, a great business with 52 employees, no desire to ride motorcycles, start flying airplanes or desire to take risk when so many people depend on me. I have had to reacquaint myself with chainsaws because of this property, so I know I'm not perfect.

Not saying you can't do it safely, but excavators are so easy to operate that most people think they can do it and end up getting themselves in trouble. Inexperience, hillsides and excavators are a recipe for trouble. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[skyking1]

I agree with you @excavator and really the same goes for all equipment on hills. There is no magic bullet there.
They will all ruin your day or your life on a hill.
This is why I suggested having an experienced hand out there for a few days to get you started and check in on you. I know that sounds to be a pain in the butt but it would be well worth it. It protects you and your investment. You said you have people depending on you so I think it's money well spent.
I had a young operator with some limited experience do some work for me and he got in trouble pretty quickly. And he had been around equipment a whole lot more than you have.
Edit:
Here are some pictures of what I put that young lad into. You showed up on the job ready to work and you're going to have to show me what you know.
I flew the excavator into this spot with the crane.

It look like this behind him.

I set him down on the flat and gave him very specific instructions.
Cut material from the left corner and place it on the right corner. Heel it in for now and I will come back and hoe pack it.
I went down below to get a hose for water for compaction and climbed up a ladder and looked over that wall right there, and he was already into the wall with the ROPS.
He was in a panic and I told him just don't do anything. Flip that lever up and take a break!

I went up there and finished it off myself.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Thank you excavator! I pray it does and appreciate the warning. It's like life, one bad decision ruins a thousand good decisions.

 

[skyking1]

I know you say you're not going to put your road on fill but you're going to put that dirt somewhere and if you don't compact and deal with it very carefully it's going to end up down the canyon in a big mess and maybe get you in trouble. So consider what happens with that dirt.
If you just toss it from one side over to the downhill side and leave it, it's not going to stay there in a gully washer.
If you want to maintain the downhill corner of the existing road and just dig in, you're going to need a big truck.
Feel free to post up pictures of what you're up to from time to time.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Agree with getting help. My son's company builds roads for housing developments, and will get one of his friends there that runs heavy equipment, I believe a grader. But, if you know the central valley, it's just flat land

 

[Dan Watrous]

Thanks skyking1, there is nothing around the driveway for hundreds of yards except hillside forest. I think I can just give it to the downhill side god to take it away. Most of the roadside is very steep and I would be more afraid of needing a retaining wall or the driveway on fill sliding away some day. I am confident in the present driveway since it has been thru a hundred wet seasons. I just want to be able to pull a travel trailer up it without ruining it.

 

[skyking1]

Yeah don't do that. At least walk over there and heel it in with the back of the bucket, and do what you can. You'll be happier with the appearance and the results. If you can shape it up nicely, you'll end up with a shoulder there and although you may not want to use it for heavy traffic, it does provide some safety.
Maybe you have some rocks that you can key in to the slope before you add the fill. Keying is where you dig a small pocket to set the rock in and then you can build on that rock with another and end up with a little bit of a bench to put the dirt on. Heel that dirt in good and then track walk the shoulder at an angle, never parallel to the slope for safety.
Short little walks and then turn and go straight and then another short little walk. When you're done, it will actually be roadway, but you're welcome to not use it. It's still a great place for walking

 

[Dan Watrous]

Yeah don't do that. At least walk over there and heel it in with the back of the bucket, and do what you can. You'll be happier with the appearance and the results. If you can shape it up nicely, you'll end up with a shoulder there and although you may not want to use it for heavy traffic, it does provide some safety.
Maybe you have some rocks that you can key in to the slope before you add the fill. Keying is where you dig a small pocket to set the rock in and then you can build on that rock with another and end up with a little bit of a bench to put the dirt on. Heel that dirt in good and then track walk the shoulder at an angle, never parallel to the slope for safety.
Short little walks and then turn and go straight and then another short little walk. When you're done, it will actually be roadway, but you're welcome to not use it. It's still a great place for walking

Thanks again!

 

[Welder Dave]

A lot of if not all rental outfits require you to have contractors/liabilty insurance and won't rent larger machines to inexperienced operators. Buying a machine you can't trust most used equipment dealers or even some new equipment dealers. A good dealer will have a condition checklist and go through everything and test things where required. If a machine has hyd. hoses dangling all over the place and not properly secured makes you wonder what else is neglected. There are good well maintained used machines out there. Don't have to jump on the 1st machine you find unless it's really really clean with a full service history and good inspection report. There's a lot of machines out there.

 

[CM1995]

Not saying you can't do it safely, but excavators are so easy to operate that most people think they can do it and end up getting themselves in trouble. Inexperience, hillsides and excavators are a recipe for trouble. Hope it all works out for you.

No doubt. Even the smallest of uh-oh's can kill you.

#2 guy for a local land clearing and ROW contractor was operating a 220 Kommie on a power line ROW down in South AL. Anyone that knows south AL it's pretty damn flat.

220 slide down a slight embankment on the operators side pinning the door and wracking the front window panel. He kicked the front glass out and climbed out of the machine then died on the spot. What he didn't know was he fractured a vertebra in his neck where a shard of bone severed an artery to his brain. He was my age and went to high school with my wife.

Be careful. These big diggy machines are exciting and all but also deadly.

 

[Acoals]

No doubt. Even the smallest of uh-oh's can kill you.

#2 guy for a local land clearing and ROW contractor was operating a 220 Kommie on a power line ROW down in South AL. Anyone that knows south AL it's pretty damn flat.

220 slide down a slight embankment on the operators side pinning the door and wracking the front window panel. He kicked the front glass out and climbed out of the machine then died on the spot. What he didn't know was he fractured a vertebra in his neck where a shard of bone severed an artery to his brain. He was my age and went to high school with my wife.

Be careful. These big diggy machines are exciting and all but also deadly.

That's kind of wild, must have been some kind of freak hit to twist his neck like that.

It is something how much shock can be transmitted into one's body via a machine. I caught a curb with the corner of the snow pusher with a skid loader last winter, just in such a way that the edge didn't trip and the floating edge couldn't move up. I was doing maybe 3-4 mph, but that was possibly the hardest hit I have ever taken, I had to sit there for about 10 minutes to shake it off. I thought for a couple minutes I might have to go to the hospital or something. Never felt that internal feeling before.

 

[Welder Dave]

Catching a curb in a skid steer going 2 MPH darn near propels you out the front door. That's where you're glad you have a seat bar. I doubt many operators wear the seat belt clearing snow from parking lots and other flat ground.

 

[Acoals]

Catching a curb in a skid steer going 2 MPH darn near propels you out the front door. That's where you're glad you have a seat bar. I doubt many operators wear the seat belt clearing snow from parking lots and other flat ground.

I was belted. I am basically always belted in, unless just moving stuff around a little. I hate sliding around in the seat, and I am generally fast and aggressive, and often run on various angles on jobs. I need to be planted in the machine.

 

[Welder Dave]

You're one of the minority but the seat bar is still nice to have when you hit something unexpected. Without a seat bar or seat belt you could really get thrown forward.