Buying an older excavator

[Welder Dave]

Not likely to find a machine with a blade in a larger size. What hasn't been asked is, do you have a max. budget? Generally you get what you pay for so spending a little more up front can save you lots of money and headaches in the long run. There's several brands worth considering in older excavators so that gives you more options than some other types of machines. Looking on the net under used excavators or on Machinery Trader will give you some idea of prices. 200 size machines are probably the most common. Going too big then you're looking at more fuel consumption and more expensive parts. As said the smaller machines are easier to move so typically are higher priced. Excavators are pretty smooth because you're mostly sitting in one spot when operating them.

 

[Dan Watrous]

The blade is what led me to the bigger mini-excavators, and I would like to retrofit a blade to a larger machine if that is possible.
It would cost me $7-8k a month to rent a 15 ton machine with thumb for a month where I can only use it on weekends. Considering 5-6 rentals over a few years, gives me a budget of $40-50k to break even in a few years and then have free use after that. That's the logic i was going to try on my wife anyway.
What is 200 vs 300 size machines? What older brands should I consider? We have a Cat used equipment yard near Fresno, so was hoping to be able to get old parts rather than new as needed.

 

[Welder Dave]

The numbers roughly translate into the weight of the machine so a 300 is a fair size bigger than a 200. I think it's by metric tons. A 200 is 20 tonnes, a 300 30 tonnes, etc. $40-50K should get you a pretty decent machine. Hitachi, JD, Komatsu, Cat, Link belt, Case and maybe a few others. Of course there are certain models of the popular brands you're probably best to steer clear of too. Pretty hard to adapt a blade to a larger excavator and excavators aren't designed for pushing like a dozer. Kobelco makes a blade runner but how many Kobelco dealers are there near you. A dealer might be able to give you an inspection report and possibly warranty on certain components. I remember seeing used machines listed from Finning (the Cat dealer here) and there was quite an extensive list of the condition of all the different components (hours since overhaul, etc.) and area's of the machine like the cab interior and operation of all the controls and switches. It also listed damaged and non working items. Sometimes it's worth paying more to buy from a dealer, especially if they sold the machine new and did all the service on it. Other times buying from a well known contractor can get you a well maintained machine that they change out when they can't right it off anymore.

 

[skyking1]

the blade runners are on 135's for the most part. They are not a good thing to try and cobble on so if you have to have one then prepare to pay for it.
I'd bu any GOOD used Cat or John Deere or Komatsu or Mitsubishi.
Not much personal experience with Kobelco or any others.
I set the filter at equipment trader to 1000 miles out, 30 to 70K for price. I did not see much

Many more straight digging machines than thumb ones.
One I saw in Colorado was a Volvo 88. I have a soft spot for those, I ran it for a season on the Mt. Rainier job.
There were a couple but they looked suspect to me.
Here is an example of suspect. This 325 looks beat. It has a simple thumb which suck if you are doing much work. The door over the pump is gone and you'd want to cover that isht up or risk a very expensive mistake if an unfortunate branch speared something.
Sprockets look good. Seat looks like a pack of cats has been living in it.
https://www.equipmenttrader.com/listing/1995-CATERPILLAR-325L-5025974629

This hitachi could be better, but the leaks and that bonus hose hanging down is a head scratcher. At least it has a progressive thumb. Unfortunately it is in the less desirable range for emissions problems.
https://www.equipmenttrader.com/listing/2008-HITACHI-ZX270+LC-5025273831

 

[Gary Layton]

I bought a CAT 320CL last year...it is approx. 50K machine. Before that I had a new Takeuchi TB370, about 15K lb. The Takeuchi is good for lots but proved too small for a big pond dredging we are doing.

The CAT 320 is a 2006 model...paid $63,000 for it. It had about 6800 hours on it, I think..somewhere in the 6000s. So far it is doing a good job. The issues we have had were a thrown track (we knew it was loose but didn't realize HOW close to trouble it was...no adjustment was left and it threw) and fuel leak. Once we got it back to shore (used the Takeuchi to recover the thrown track and my son walked it out "one-legged" to shore where we re-installed the track good enough to track the CAT to the shop, about 300 yards away.) We replaced sprockets and pad bolts, rebuilt adjusters, replaced frozen rollers and carriers.

On the fuel leak, it just needed an O-ring. We discovered a leaking head gasket when we bought it and have been watching that but so far it has shown up again...a head scratcher but I am accepting it as good for now. It is going to need a boom cylinder rebuilt at some point...slow leak there.

The CAT has the quick change hydraulic coupling system...super useful. I was not looking for that feature but it came with it. Hoorah.

Like these guys said...big has lots of advantages...and lower hours could save some headaches. Good luck.

 

[Welder Dave]

Kobelco had a 160 blade runner. I don't know what Mitsubishi is like for parts. Also not sure of parts for the Mitsubishi built Cat machines but those are older.

 

[skyking1]

I bought a CAT 320CL last year...it is approx. 50K machine. Before that I had a new Takeuchi TB370, about 15K lb. The Takeuchi is good for lots but proved too small for a big pond dredging we are doing.

The CAT 320 is a 2006 model...paid $63,000 for it. It had about 6800 hours on it, I think..somewhere in the 6000s. So far it is doing a good job. The issues we have had were a thrown track (we knew it was loose but didn't realize HOW close to trouble it was...no adjustment was left and it threw) and fuel leak. Once we got it back to shore (used the Takeuchi to recover the thrown track and my son walked it out "one-legged" to shore where we re-installed the track good enough to track the CAT to the shop, about 300 yards away.) We replaced sprockets and pad bolts, rebuilt adjusters, replaced frozen rollers and carriers.

On the fuel leak, it just needed an O-ring. We discovered a leaking head gasket when we bought it and have been watching that but so far it has shown up again...a head scratcher but I am accepting it as good for now. It is going to need a boom cylinder rebuilt at some point...slow leak there.

The CAT has the quick change hydraulic coupling system...super useful. I was not looking for that feature but it came with it. Hoorah.

Like these guys said...big has lots of advantages...and lower hours could save some headaches. Good luck.

so what do you think Gary? is the 320 more than 3 times the takeuchi as far as getting work done?

 

[Gary Layton]

For sure. The amount of dirt we can move is amazing compared to the Takeuchi. The bucket on the CAT is seriously big. And picking up logs is amazing, too. Moving one mud mat is no problem...about 2300 pounds. Moving two at once can get prickly at extension but slow and easy works thru that.

The Takeuchi is more nimble and gets into tight spots...along canals or snaking thru the woods to get to some beaver dams we have to control. And it is lighter and does not wreck lawns/fields like the CAT. But that's not such an issue at the farm. The CAT 320 was a smart buy on our part.

 

[skyking1]

Here is a 200 Komatsu that is more along the lines of reasonable.
https://modesto.craigslist.org/hvo/d/modesto-komatsu-pc200-excavator/7627389749.html
two buckets is a nice extra.

160 JD with simple thumb. About 35K machine.
https://fresno.craigslist.org/hvo/d/madera-john-deere-excavator/7627425574.html

 

[Welder Dave]

Forgot to mention Cat numbers are different as far as weight goes. I think a 320 is around a 200 size in other brands.

 

[Gary Layton]

Different charts say my 320 is from 44000 lbs to 50000 lbs.

 

[skyking1]

20 metric tons 44000 pounds. It is a start, then there are things like the thumb weight or long carriage or just plain model bloat.

 

[Welder Dave]

Cat had similar numbering system to the others with the E series Mitsubishi derived series. I think when they went to Sumitomo designs is when they changed their numbering system. They just had to be different.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Here is a 200 Komatsu that is more along the lines of reasonable.
https://modesto.craigslist.org/hvo/d/modesto-komatsu-pc200-excavator/7627389749.html
two buckets is a nice extra.

160 JD with simple thumb. About 35K machine.
https://fresno.craigslist.org/hvo/d/madera-john-deere-excavator/7627425574.html

Thank you skyking1!! Now I have to get serious with my wife and check them out!!

 

[Acoals]

Has anybody started popcorn yet?

Try not to get carried away with the butter . . .

 

[Dan Watrous]

What is this untucked hydraulic line on the other side of the boom for? Other than this line, the biggest difference i can tell between the 2 machines is i like the placement of the lines on the deere at the top of the stick compared to the komatsu.

 

[Acoals]

View attachment 290028
What is this untucked hydraulic line on the other side of the boom for?

On of three options, the other hose for the bucket cylinder, the other hose for the thumb cylinder, or it is for a hydraulic quick attach.

 

[skyking1]

The thumb on the 160 is a simple thumb that was cobbled on there, and they did not tie up the lines well.
There is a lot of difference between that and a progressive thumb on the Komatsu 200 or that 270.
That extra line in the 270 is probably the case drain line from a mower head, and that goes with the full guard on the front of the cab.

 

[skyking1]

I was thinking of that 270, I edited my post above.
If you see doing a lot of grubbing with the thumb, then consider getting a progressive thumb vs simple thumb.
The progressive thumb has that extra linkage between cylinder and thumb, and has a much wider operating range.
Simple thumb is what a mini has on it from the factory, and you have to work it in a more limited range of motion. They work, but are not as slick as a progressive.

 

[excavator]

Something that has not been talked about. You say you have run a backhoe for 25 hours otherwise you have an office job and your property is located in the Sierras with a lot of steep hill sides. Bigger is often better but the bigger the machine the bigger the trouble you get yourself into. Also, the bigger the machine the bigger the cost to fix when you do break it. I would suggest renting different size machines for awhile not only to get used to running an excavator but also to see what size works best for you. I'm an equipment mechanic and through the years have seen many disasters from inexperienced people buying machines that they have no clue about. Give some people a ball bearing and send them into the woods and they will be back with parts in 15 minutes. I would have rather seen a customer buy a machine because that would give me more work but in many situations, especially like this one, rentals make a lot of sense.