Buying an older excavator

[Dan Watrous]

Hi All, I am starting to research buying an older 30k lbs.ish excavator to improve a forested lot we have purchased. 1 acre combined of flat areas and 39 acres of steep hillside with 12"-36" trees for camping, shooting, and raising grandkids. It has overgrown logging roads throughout. Me, I'm a total novice with 25 hours of loader backhoe experience and an office job, so I can only have fun on weekends. I look forward to years of occasional Saturdays widening a road or removing a stump. The excavator will sit most all of the time with a service call yearly. I can afford to rent, but would like to save money in the long run, plus have the convenience of having it there ready to go. I would love to have a new Cat 316 with thumb and blade if I was rich.

When does the sweet spot change to the money pit zone in older excavators that are rarely used, for age, hours on the machine and cost to buy? Any advice?

 

[skyking1]

There are so many possibilities out there that general advice is a little tough to give.
That being said, I would readjust your sights.
1) absolutely plan on getting some professional eyeballs on whichever machine you think you want. You cannot skip this step as an inexperienced person.
2) look at bigger iron. You're only going to move at once, and at some point they provide a better value for the dollar. People can't move them around with their dump truck so they don't want one.
This puts a premium on anything in the 30000 lb or less range.
You on the other hand are going to hire a delivery one time.
I would be looking at 200s to 300s.
3) get a seasoned hand to help you for a day or two when you get it. It will make you safer, faster and less stupid looking when you are on your own.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Thank you skyking1, will look for bigger. Do 25 year old machines have smooth hydraulic control similar to newer machines?

 

[skyking1]

Yes.
The newer machines can be quicker, but they don't necessarily feel any smoother.
What's your approximate zip code? Do you want a thumb?

 

[Dan Watrous]

93628 for the property east of fresno ca in the sierras. It is 5 miles from the entrance to kings canyon national park where the giant sequoias are but a little lower at 5200 feet.
Want a hydraulic thumb and would love to be able to add a blade for leveling roads if that is possible for the larger machines

 

[Coaldust]

Hello Dan and welcome to the HEF!

Have you read this thread about home owners purchasing 40 year old, 30-40 ton class hoes ? What I learned was the bigger the better for street cred. Make sure it’s bigger than the neighbor’s hoe.

Homeowners buying old giant excavators?

Wonder what the world will be like when everyone is a construction equipment operator, HVAC repairman, computer repairman, hardwood floor installer, brain surgeon, dentist, landscaper, politician-oops forgot everyone already is that, chef, well driller, college professor, lawyer, pilot...

www.heavyequipmentforums.com

 

[skyking1]

Hey, now I'm not advocating mining machines here!!

 

[Coaldust]

I’ll make Dan a great deal on my 320C project. As is, where is. One owner. Maintenance records recorded in black sharpie on the shop wall. Many new parts. Some assembly required. It has a thumb and the boom is already cracked.

 

[bam1968]

I might be wrong but I feel like a 36" tree would be a load for a hydraulic thumb. I have a manual thumb on a pc200 komatsu and a hydraulic thumb on a pc220. I can grab and hold bigger trees with the 200. The thumb on the 220 will go past the relief pretty fast. Don't get me wrong I love the hydraulic thumb most of the time but not for big trees.

 

[Coaldust]

Jeremy has a good thread going regarding homeowners lifting those heavy tree logs with giant excavators.

Tool to clamp and lift heavy tree logs?

I have a 345BL and a bunch of cut-down trees on my property, 24" in diameter and some as long as 20'. I want to preserve the length so I can utilize them in the future. But moving them around has proven difficult with my standard bucket. Is there any innovative way to move these things or some...

www.heavyequipmentforums.com

 

[skyking1]

I have not seen him report any success with that yet, but at least he's doing the bucket assisted turn.
The one step at a time.

 

[Coaldust]

That reminded me of the recent new homeowner member whom purchased a 235B and promptly emptied the hydraulic reservoir in the backyard soon after walking it off the transport.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Thanks for difference between different thumb types. I will probably push bigger logs down the hill if I can't carry them.
What is a cracked boom, if not something I don't want to have to fix?
Does north of the 60 mean Yukon, NWT or Nunavut?
If purchasing a distant machine, was going to call the local dealer to get a recommendation for the local guys that go out into the field to repair broke down machines to get an inspection. Is there a better way to get a good inspection when I can't do it?

 

[joe--h]

Distant machine = large $$$ to move, keep that in mind.

Joe H

 

[skyking1]

take your time and find an independent mechanic/inspector if you can. I know you want it NOW but you can rush into a whole lot of misery.
That is part of my suggestion for bigger iron. You can find a well maintained gem for the same money of half the size of clapped out neglected worn out midsize.
When you speak of 12~36" trees, bigger machine is always better.
The other things about bigger:
1) they flatten out the local terrain and provide a smoother ride in all ways. This is handy when tracking in some rock.
2) they just reach over there, rather than tracka-tracka-tracka back and forth.
3) if it a 90's to 2000's machine with a butt, it is roomier to work on.
4) bigger oil changes and fluid changes. Annual changes are not necessary, just do it per hour schedule and keep track of it. Getting a well maintained machine with a record is worth many extra $$ because you don't have to knee-jerk the oils changes, there is a record of it.

 

[Coaldust]

Thanks for difference between different thumb types. I will probably push bigger logs down the hill if I can't carry them.
What is a cracked boom, if not something I don't want to have to fix?
Does north of the 60 mean Yukon, NWT or Nunavut?
If purchasing a distant machine, was going to call the local dealer to get a recommendation for the local guys that go out into the field to repair broke down machines to get an inspection. Is there a better way to get a good inspection when I can't do it?

The best way to get an legit inspection in the PNW is from HEF member, John. C.

The second best is your’s truly. I’ll be in Cali next week doing an pre-delivery/purchase inspection on a Propane Bobtail at Arrow Manufacturing in Big Raisin.

My corporate headquarters is located in Wasilla, AK. But, I whore myself out all over the Last Frontier and the L48.

Cracked boom is exactly why you want an inspection done. There are so many traps and pitfalls with old, used excavators. They will crush your hopes & dreams and empty your wallet in a heartbeat.

 

[BC Placer gold]

All good advice being given here. In regards to walking, a larger machine is much less “jarring”. We often have to walk our machines 10km or more. I really dread this in our 5 ton, the 21 ton is much nicer. As stated above trees are easier/safer to manage with the larger machine. We have removed a substantial number of trees with a 12 ton machine, however our current 21 ton with the increased reach/weight is preferred (especially large fir trees)

When inspecting a used machine pay close attention to the rotek bearing (useful to have a second person to watch closely for movement between the upper structure and the carbody)

 

[skyking1]

yes, everything about bigger is smoother if it is on tracks. I can do a day on an 8 or 9 dozer going hard on a fill, but about halfway through I am shot on a 450-ish machine. Every rock beats the crap out of you.

 

[skyking1]

All good advice being given here. In regards to walking, a larger machine is much less “jarring”. We often have to walk our machines 10km or more. I really dread this in our 5 ton, the 21 ton is much nicer. As stated above trees are easier/safer to manage with the larger machine. We have removed a substantial number of trees with a 12 ton machine, however our current 21 ton with the increased reach/weight is preferred (especially large fir trees)

When inspecting a used machine pay close attention to the rotek bearing (useful to have a second person to watch closely for movement between the upper structure and the carbody)

@John C has videos explaining much of the inspection processes. I would still farm it out to a pro though. They will see a thing out of the corner of their eye in passing that could save tons of misery.

 

[BC Placer gold]

^^ I agree, it takes significant experience to properly access a machine. Given the cost (especially these days…) of parts/repairs the money to hire an expert is well spent.