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Too early to tell if DEF is going away?

DDoug

Formerly digger doug
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
2,724
Location
NW Pennsylvania
Occupation
Thrash-A-Matic designer
And what about all the "cheating emissions" lawsuits a few years ago ?
IIRC VW really got hit hard.
Is this why CAT got out of the OTR truck engines business as well ?
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
17,976
Location
Canada
How about a 3204? What was weird with mine after a rebuilt was it was going through oil like crazy because the rings didn't seat but there was no smoke at all. Even the rebuild shop was surprised when they drove it across their yard into the shop. Have no idea where the oil was going. They thought maybe it was just that efficient that it was burning the oil so clean.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
1,494
Location
wa
That was standard for a 3208, mosquito control.
Yeah disposable crap engines they were. I didn't like working on them at all.

All the goofy regs would cease, if all the big company's together as one, said its this or mass layoffs and closed doors. Along with the trashed economy that would follow.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
17,976
Location
Canada
3208's were OK in some applications. Some people liked them. One guy told me awhile ago they were OK in a medium truck application but terrible in an excavator where they needed constant high RPM power. He said that's what gave the original 225 excavator a bad reputation. You don't hear about 225's very often. Probably because they've all met their grave.
 

LCA078

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
723
Location
Austin, TX
I think there's some misunderstanding because there are two types of regulations at play. One type of regulations or standards is trying to increase efficiency of internal combustion engines so they use less fuel for the same amount of work (e.g. miles per gallon). This helps reduce the amount of carbon dioxide produced when burning fuel. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas (not my opinion, it's just the official definition). Back in the day, the US administration "classified greenhouse gases as pollution that endangers public health" which meant enforcing emissions control fell under the EPA (just like cleaning up abandoned toxic waste sites).

The other type of regulation is reducing the pollutants like NOx, particulates, fuel vapors, etc. These are the things that cause smog, acid rain, etc. DEF doesn't affect carbon dioxide output, DEF only reduces the nitrogen oxides (NOx).

The current US administration effectively had carbon dioxide delisted as a pollutant so enforcing limits on carbon dioxide emissions is no longer under the EPA because it no longer endangers public health. That's really all the article is saying in the OP's first post.

So I don't think DEF or any of the current emissions stuff will fade anytime soon as all that stuff is really aimed at reducing all the other pollutants besides carbon dioxide. Engine manufacturers may receive relaxed limits in how they must increase "miles per gallon" for their engines but that's probably the only relaxation. And it was this 'increased mpg' reason why electric vehicles have been pushed so hard to be incorporated into fleets as the EVs made the total carbon dioxide emissions get averaged down to meet standard. Without the need to decrease carbon dioxide outputs, I doubt EVs, especially for heavy equipment, will make sense in the near future.
 
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LCA078

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
723
Location
Austin, TX
On a side note, I'm about to go look at a small Hyster diesel forklift with what I think is Tier III controls on it. The guy selling it is frustrated with all the electronic systems that he can't troubleshoot easily. He can get it to crank but not start. He's cracked the injector lines but can't get fuel out during crank. It's a Kubota engine so I'm hoping it's a simple electronic fuel shutoff issue or such but won't know until I see it in person.

The point is I think the emissions stuff, or even efficiency enhancements, went way too far when little 6,000 pound forklifts require advanced training and laptops for basic troubleshooting.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,805
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
$5k give or take, plus your own laptop, will get you in the door with equipment diagnosis software, all brands. Maybe do some better than others. I wish it cost less but that was the deal I could find. There are a couple of vendors on here.
 
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