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Would you upgrade a reliable dump truck?

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
17,376
Location
WWW.
IMO the pre-Daimler Stars were tough to beat. I'd take a Kelowna built Western Star over a similar year Peterbilt or Kenworth without question.

Below is a original Star Car. This one only had when this photo was taken 4 years ago 43k on it.
Sold for 20K, was originally 36K new in 1975. Real good trucks these were, only problem was parts
support, zero parts now, frames were 110 grade.

279273598_2820809818219508_9010799018869833382_n (1).jpg 278694284_2820809624886194_6516260664120449976_n.jpg 278968713_2820809648219525_7069425687912619403_n.jpg
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
You haven't said what you are pulling with it (except for "my 'hoe"), nor have you said how the truck is equipped. I don't have much experience with Western Star. In fact, I have zero so I don't have much understanding of what your experience may be like. I can say this. The pre-emissions trucks are so expensive to buy used because they don't have the emissions, and the associate costs and headaches that come with them. I would not recommend buying into that potential nightmare. You said that you are familiar with the truck (your dad's truck), and then went on to talk about the issues that it has. Did you even hear yourself typing?;)
I currently have (2) dumptrucks. My first is a '94 Peterbilt 377. I bought it as a tractor, had the frame extended and put a rock tub on the back. It has the wrong suspension for a dumptruck but it rides down the road very well. It does not have the air suspension on the cab but it does have Pete AirLeaf on the rears. The other truck is an '86 KW W900. It has a good suspension for a dumptruck but it rides terribly when empty. It rides on Hendricks extended leaf walking beam. The cab of the W900 is quite a bit noisier as well. That being said, I am looking at upgrading the truck instead of buying a late model truck that comes with the emissions headaches. Putting a new rock box on it and trying to make the cab more comfortable looks like the better option to me.

It's a 210 Volvo total weight with trailer is around 65000lbs, truck has a Cat 3406B with 13 speed and walking beam suspension. It's not short on power or anything. A few times i've even threw a few tons in the box or haul extra attachments and i'm around 100,000lbs and it handles it no problem. The cab is far from great, it's definitely the more basic for that timeframe also lacks extra things like EGT, etc for gauges. If I found a good deal on a box i'd go for it, 95% of my hauling is concrete and the floor is pretty beat and the overall size is a bit small, an extra few yards capacity would be nice.

My dads truck has had some issues for sure, but most were emissions related, if deleted it wouldn't be as bad.
 

DGODGR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
1,065
Location
S/W CO
It's a 210 Volvo total weight with trailer is around 65000lbs, truck has a Cat 3406B with 13 speed and walking beam suspension. It's not short on power or anything. A few times i've even threw a few tons in the box or haul extra attachments and i'm around 100,000lbs and it handles it no problem. The cab is far from great, it's definitely the more basic for that timeframe also lacks extra things like EGT, etc for gauges. If I found a good deal on a box i'd go for it, 95% of my hauling is concrete and the floor is pretty beat and the overall size is a bit small, an extra few yards capacity would be nice.

My dads truck has had some issues for sure, but most were emissions related, if deleted it wouldn't be as bad.

Understood. In my opinion the 3406 is a phenomenal engine, and the 13 spd is pretty good for heavy loads, especially if the rear diff ratio has you max out at 55 (is that MPH or KPH?). The walking beam is a rough ride but works well in off-road situations, and is tough as nails. Re- bushing is easily accomplished (many specialized service providers that will come to you to perform this) so I don't see that as a very good excuse to unload the truck.
I would attempt to install a cab air ride system before bailing on the truck. If you still can't deal with the ride then I (myself) would still look for a pre- emissions ride. If you have time to work on your own stuff, upgrades (like a pyrometer to register EGTs) is not difficult. A new seat (with heat/cool, vibration for your sore back, etc) can also be installed relatively easily and inexpensively. If there is a ton of cab noise, there are ways to seal off, and insulate the cab to increase the comfort level.
As far as your comments on your dads truck, yes, you can eliminate the emissions but you are still left with a 12 year old truck (an International no less) with a maxforce engine. I have no experience with one but you, and other posters, have not indicated much, or any, praise for this engine. Really, it comes down to the suspension, and comfort level on your dad's truck.
Another poster mentioned a rear end "take- out", with a different suspension and gear ratios, as an option. I know that it would add expense and time but you still have the truck you know, the engine and trans that you like, and no emissions. Somebody else mentioned putting $20k into the truck to bring it up to what you want. I think that would be the better option than buying your dad's truck and you'd still be $60k ahead. The only possible downside is if you decide to sell it (after you drop the $20k into it), you may not get your money back out of it. That's hard to say if that's the case, or not. After all, you would be selling a pre- emissions truck!;)
As it relates to the rock box that I mentioned, I was looking at buying new. There are not a lot of "deals" out there right now as construction has been BOOMING in the western US for some time now. That being said, I was quoted a brand new 16' Western bed (fully AR 450, dual acting hi- lift, spreader, apron, cab guard, full length fenders, electric tarp, air gate latches, hoist, and mounted to a sub frame, for +/- $22k (US). This sounds like a lot but I paid $17k for a 15' 23 years ago (that was mounted, cab painted, and included the buck plate/hitch as well).
 

cfherrman

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
1,980
Location
Hays, Kansas
I worked for a builder, bought a new 1/2 ton pickup every three years. It's almost true to say his pickup was his only expense. He lived on deer meat, lived in a very small house he built 40 years ago. His hobby was work & in truth, he worked 7 days, 11 hours a day nearly every week.
He was/is a wealthy man. Invested every penny he could hoard. He is now about 80 years of age. His logic is you have to show up in a new truck. If you don't, your customers doubt you.

I (an electrician) have always driven a van. Only an expert can tell the year of a van. I keep my vehicles in condition. My van looks recent, even though they average 13 years old at replacement.


Probably a stretch, but maybe you are being judged by the appearance of your truck?

The showing up in a new truck used to be a thing, now tons of trucks are old and nobody cares. I show up in a 1965 and people are glad to see me because, one I do show up, and two people pay for your experience.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,370
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I have a 1989 and it had a good paint job, people thought it was real nice. Now the paint has faded and gotten grimy somewhat, might want to refresh the paint job, but the trouble now (and then) is finding anyone to do it.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
Had to borrow the international because my truck is down, and man i'm having a hard time not wanting to upgrade now. I forgot how much nicer it is to drive, and being an hour out of town job it was a lot of driving. It's just SO much nicer on the highway then mine, there is no amount of money I could put into mine to make it anywhere close. I know the international is garbage, but I am really struggling not to pull the trigger on it and gamble it will be ok. However holy crap does it ever suck back the fuel! According to GPS I drove 100 miles pulling hoe, and 25 miles unloaded and I put in 44 gallons at the start, can't be more then 10 of it left and that's generous, I bet mine gets nearly double the mileage. I am also sour with mine right now because of the BS of working on it this week though.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
What would be the price and is there any in the area for sale that you know the price of?

Ritchie's prices are all over but i'd guess it's worth around $50k maybe a bit less. I would think i'd get around $20k for mine, so it's not that much more money. If it costs the same to keep it on the road as mine i'm fine with that, it's worth it for the comfort.
 
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