when is a machine too "old"?

[mitch504]

GOOD GOSH,NO, JOHN! You can't mention cigarettes! That'll really arouse the government leviathan!

:beatsme :drinkup

 

[dieseldog5.9]

I think who manufactured the machine has a huge impact on the years of service, I had always looked at cat as having high priced parts, until I started buying hitatchi parts and komatsu parts for 20 year old machines, i am amazed every time. However some of the cat parts for my 20 year machine have come way down over the years and had been pleasantly surprised. For some reason Mack trucks have a stronghold in the northeast, and guys will ask top dollar for an old 300Hp 6spd truck with the cab corner falling apart, and get it! The overseas market in Nigeria must be helping this as they love Mack's. The emissions piece is a huge concern, if you have a late 90s western star or Pete with a pre emission single turbo cat and an 18speed you can write your own price, but a 2006 you couldn't hardly give away. With that over the course of 20 years 2 operators can have a huge affect on the value and reliability of a machine.

 

[clintm]

the only reason I consider new machines is for lower fuel consumption in high hour applications. But I still try to keep the old stuff for trusty standby's and I plan on trading off the new wiz bang electronic bell's and whistles every couple years

 

[Mike Van]

At a show last year I'm staring into the cab of a new Cat or Deere loader [can't remember which] I said to the sales guy " what would I do if this wouldn't start some morning?" He said "call us, we'll plug the laptop in & figure it out" Sad that an average mechanic can't fix much anymore.

 

[mitch504]

At a show last year I'm staring into the cab of a new Cat or Deere loader [can't remember which] I said to the sales guy " what would I do if this wouldn't start some morning?" He said "call us, we'll plug the laptop in & figure it out" Sad that an average mechanic can't fix much anymore.

I don't really think this is true. You still need to look for horses not zebras when you hear hoofbeats. Too many times people plug in the laptop and spend time chasing momentary error codes instead of checking battery cables and clogged fuel filters. You do need to have a basic understanding of the electronic crap that's on there, though. I am enough of a luddite that it pisses me off when the problem is some electronic gadget that's on there just to make the machine do what the model before did without it.

 

[Buckethead]

One time I got into an argument with a boilermaker when he told me "New cranes are better." (This was not on a job site) He couldn't tell me the difference between a Manitowoc 222 and a Manitowoc 3900. But he was sure "new cranes are better because they have a computer" He couldn't tell me what the "computer" was for, he was just sure that it made the machine better. He was also sure the computer should ALWAYS be overridden by the operator. I asked him how that made sense, to have a "computer" (load moment indicator) but to override it all the time. He couldn't answer that one either.

 

[Buckethead]

At a show last year I'm staring into the cab of a new Cat or Deere loader [can't remember which] I said to the sales guy " what would I do if this wouldn't start some morning?" He said "call us, we'll plug the laptop in & figure it out" Sad that an average mechanic can't fix much anymore.

Call them? Then you are at the dealer service manager's mercy. You'd be better off with an old 966C from the '70s.

 

[kshansen]

I am enough of a luddite that it pisses me off when the problem is some electronic gadget that's on there just to make the machine do what the model before did without it.

You mean you don't "NEED" the system that is on our new 980K? The one that if you are running with the front wiper on and shift in to reverse the rear wiper comes on with out you struggling to reach that switch 8 inches from your right hand?

 

[kshansen]

I think I posted this somewhere on this site but seems to fit the subject here.

We have a 988H Cat for our main pit loader in the quarry. As will happen at times in digging shot rock a large rock fell off the bucket and hit the boom. Just hard enough to snap the 10mm bolts holding the tilt sensor and guard. Did no damage to the linkage or sensor. Figured that's an easy fix. Removed a couple broken bolts and straightened a slight bend in the guard. Once it was back together tried to use machine, nothing on the boom or tilt system would work. At that time we did not have access to Cat ET program. Called dealer and tech comes out and runs calibration on sensor and everything was working in about five minutes. Seems when the sensor was hit it rotated out of the "normal" range and the ECM went into panic mode and shut everything down. Why could not the ECM just forget what happened when key was turned off an go back to what was calibrated in when sensor was installed?

Another of my pet-peeves is the "Trouble Codes" why can't the digital display just say "Number six injector coil amps too high" instead of some random looking numbers that you have to spend half an hour digging to find what they mean?

 

[lantraxco]

Back in the late 90's I got a call from a parts guy at another CAT dealer, his customer was a logger with a CAT excavator converted to a log loader. Membrane switch panel wore out, couldn't turn the window wipers on anymore. Wanted to replace the switch pad, right? Not sure why but somebody told him to call me when he couldn't figure it out and CAT was no help. Anyway, when you pushed the little bump on the switch panel, the module it was connected to sent a signal over a four wire harness back to the system computer, which probably had a meeting with the engine computer, to decide if they should allow you to have wipers or not. The computer sent the signal back to a relay next to the operator's right foot in the side panel there, about 18 inches below the switch, to turn on power to the wiper motor. Problem was, you can't buy the switch pad, you have to buy the display module it was part of... at the time over $700. Wow. I told them I would deny it if ever questioned buy my suggestion was to remove the relay and wire in a toggle switch between the power lead and the wiper motor wire.

Sometimes engineers do things because they can, not because it's the sensible thing to do.

 

[mitch504]

I think I posted this somewhere on this site but seems to fit the subject here.

We have a 988H Cat for our main pit loader in the quarry. As will happen at times in digging shot rock a large rock fell off the bucket and hit the boom. Just hard enough to snap the 10mm bolts holding the tilt sensor and guard. Did no damage to the linkage or sensor. Figured that's an easy fix. Removed a couple broken bolts and straightened a slight bend in the guard. Once it was back together tried to use machine, nothing on the boom or tilt system would work. At that time we did not have access to Cat ET program. Called dealer and tech comes out and runs calibration on sensor and everything was working in about five minutes. Seems when the sensor was hit it rotated out of the "normal" range and the ECM went into panic mode and shut everything down. Why could not the ECM just forget what happened when key was turned off an go back to what was calibrated in when sensor was installed?

Another of my pet-peeves is the "Trouble Codes" why can't the digital display just say "Number six injector coil amps too high" instead of some random looking numbers that you have to spend half an hour digging to find what they mean?

I suspect the answer to that is that if they did it that way, you wouldn't have as much need for Cat Support.
Now, do you think those injectors are much better than mechanical ones?

Sometimes engineers do things because they can, not because it's the sensible thing to do.

That, my friend, is the truest thing anybody ever put on the internet!!

 

[ripn]

lantrax is my new friend

Back in the late 90's I got a call from a parts guy at another CAT dealer, his customer was a logger with a CAT excavator converted to a log loader. Membrane switch panel wore out, couldn't turn the window wipers on anymore. Wanted to replace the switch pad, right? Not sure why but somebody told him to call me when he couldn't figure it out and CAT was no help. Anyway, when you pushed the little bump on the switch panel, the module it was connected to sent a signal over a four wire harness back to the system computer, which probably had a meeting with the engine computer, to decide if they should allow you to have wipers or not. The computer sent the signal back to a relay next to the operator's right foot in the side panel there, about 18 inches below the switch, to turn on power to the wiper motor. Problem was, you can't buy the switch pad, you have to buy the display module it was part of... at the time over $700. Wow. I told them I would deny it if ever questioned buy my suggestion was to remove the relay and wire in a toggle switch between the power lead and the wiper motor wire.

Sometimes engineers do things because they can, not because it's the sensible thing to do.

lantrax how is it we are all talking about the same thing and all pretty much feel the same way about how things are turning seems like for the worse but its still happening!!!!! just like that dc 70 that I cant find a sprocket for why were they aloud to do that!!!!!!!! how can you build a machine advertise how great it is than just quit
RIPN

 

[mitch504]

lantrax how is it we are all talking about the same thing and all pretty much feel the same way about how things are turning seems like for the worse but its still happening!!!!! just like that dc 70 that I cant find a sprocket for why were they aloud to do that!!!!!!!! how can you build a machine advertise how great it is than just quit
RIPN

Because mechanics and small fleet owners aren't who the manufacturers listen to. (if they listen to anybody)

 

[Mike Van]

I'll just stick with my old Trojan, life is simple with it.................

 

[kshansen]

I'll just stick with my old Trojan, life is simple with it.................

I could tell you some stories about Trojan loaders, like when we got a new one and before we even so much as climed in the cab to look at it I was walking by it and noticed something on the ground by the front wheels. It was one of the bolts that hold the front axle to the frame. It had not come loose it was broken!

One good thing about Trojans is they made almost none of the parts, they just got out parts cataloges and ordered off the shelf parts from who ever made them. So even now that they are not around you can usally find most anything you need some place.

 

[Mike Van]

We all know anything can & will break, but for a man to be able to figure it out & fix it without a computer chip telling him its broken to me is priceless. I spent 2 hours in my dentists chair the other day [owww] - He's telling me all about the computer that runs his new used Corvette - Can't even spin the tires, computer won't let it - Whats the reason for owning a Vette if you can't lite 'em up once & awhile? Might as well of bought a Yugo. I didn't tell him that, never a good idea to 'offend' your dentist. I probably bought half that Vette over the last 10 years.

 

[OFF]

what I enjoy the most is when all the warning lights come on and the new machine goes into limp mode. You're way out in the boonies so it's a $1000+ service call for the dealer to hook up his laptop and tell you that your serviceman over-filled the oil by a quart on the last service. That's what set off the alarms and crippled the machine........and of course something like that isn't covered by warranty.