What should i look for- Ranch Dozer

[KRob]

Hi everyone, kind of a newbie, and not incredibly knowledgeable about dozers.

I am looking for some kind of dozer to use on my ranch. I need something to build roads, clean up road, dig in some pounds, clean feed lots up ect.

My issue is i would like it somewhat movable by a 1 ton and a gooseneck, i am not talking long drives but just transportable via that method.

Of course im looking for stuff under the 15000.

So i know between the transportation and the price it kind of limits the dozers im looking at.

What are your thoughts, I only know JD but am not limiting it to that. i know a JD350 would probably be the most manageable for transportation however i dont believe its big enough to do the jobs im talking about. Anyway, i am really new to dozers so please break it down for me.

Also i am looking for some reading on U/C and how to judge them ect. Cant find anything via the search function.

Thanks
Rob

 

[clansing1]

I would recommend a Dresser TD-9G with about 90 HP, Cummins Turbo, Mechanical engine and weighs about 18,000 lbs. They made them in Libertyville (Chicago) until 1989 and then moved manufacturing to Poland, I believe. I would try to find a US maded dozer if possible and pay more for a lower hour machine with a better undercarriage. You should be able to find one for $20K. The extra weight, HP, and lower hours are worth the extra $5-6. These machines are simple, mechanical well design and built, and easy to work on.

Just my thoughts. Good luck.

 

[North Texan]

A JD350 can do a lot for a good operator. I've seen a few operators that can do more with one than a lot can with a D6 Cat. Now, nothing you can haul behind a pickup will be great for pond work. Not enough dozer or enough blade to efficiently push large amounts of dirt. If you aren't having to push big trees, they are fine for clearing fencelines or roads, and great for minor pasture road repairs. They don't do a lot of work fast, but they are easy to move and can do a lot of things. My personal preference if I were getting a smaller dozer would be a JD550. They are as big as I would haul on a pickup and trailer, but it isn't a big deal with the right set up. They have more weight and power than a JD350 or JD450, and sometimes it can make a difference. The biggest difference I've seen was cutting fire guards.

Really, for a ranch dozer, my pick would be a D6C or D6D. They are good for building and patching roads, can push some types of brush, can dig and clean ponds, and can generally do most things a ranch dozer would need to do. They are going to be too heavy for a pickup/trailer combo, but they can do a lot of work and are good old machines.

 

[stumpjumper83]

Keeping your intended buget in mind, look for deere 450 & 550's, start with the 450c and any of the 550's. If you bump your buget to 20k, you will be able to get into some g's and maybe a high hour h. Try to get either rippers or a winch, some of the 450's may have three point on them. Barebacks are not bad, just less usefull. My preference woould be a winch, especially if your cleaning out a pond for your first time...

 

[Drc]

You might find a mid 90's Komatsu, I have 1996 D 37 E,good dozer after I spent a little money on it, probably be hard to sell for $20,000

 

[KRob]

Thanks for all the information, after i wrote the post i really started reading and watching some u-tube videos and it really showed me that being able to be moved by a pick up and being big enough to accomplish what i need it to do, is going to be very very difficult. Originally to stay legal i was writing off the JD550 because they are heavy enough that they would put me over the 25,000 mark very easily. However that is in reality the smallest weight/power range that would probably be acceptable in this case. If you have any other suggestions please bring them forward.

Few semi dumb questions
Grey Market---is there a certain place you go to purchase those types
----what is some more background on this method.

LPG- I see this in a lot of the option on richies spec page however all i can figure is it something to do with the tracks....i think can anyone clear it up for me

also undercarriage can anyone refer me to some good reading on how to tell the life on u/c and just general knowledge on them

Thanks
Rob

 

[hvy 1ton]

Grey market machines are machines that were not built for the us market, but were imported at some point. Depending on the manufacturer/machine there are varying degrees of product support. LGP signifies low ground pressure. The machines have wide gauge, wide blade, wide pads, and often a horsepower bump.

 

[ttazzman]

within the limits you have put out.....i would be looking for a JD450 up through a JD555g trackloader with a 4 in 1 blade

here is one link to a site that you can check specs on machines http://murphyused.com/specs.php

 

[Rockpile]

clansing1 has the right idea. I am in the same boat as you...I chose a 1981 Dresser TD8E. They are heavier than a farm gooseneck will haul, but you will save enough to buy a GOOD tri-axle gooseneck. I would get a 1982-1992 TD8Emine was $11K from a dealer. They can be bought at auctions for $4-12K easily.
I have had 350's and 450's....they are toys compared to the TD8E....Figure this way, if you are less than 11,000 lbs....you have a good finish dozer, push a bit of dirt, but take a month to build a pond. 10,000 - 15,000 lbs, you can get more serious, but still can't get a lot of dirt in front of you before you have to dump some. The TD8E weigh 17,000-18,000......wow, what a difference.The 6 way blade limits tree pushing.
I was not ready to get the standard D6 that all the farmers use around here. I wanted smaller and more transportable.....BUT.....I am too old now to have a month left to dig a pond....Don't get me wrong....the 350-450 are sweet to pretty up the place. I have 3 miles of beautiful road on 160 acres, that are 30 years old....ditched, crowned, and better than the county dirt roads.
My $.02

 

[storm56]

Hello - Pretty new to this site myself, have been reading here for a while. Pretty good bunch of guys here as with most forums.

To help the OP with some info, here is my experience. I too own a decent size acreage and have needed a dozer to help me accomplish my tasks. For the previous 15 years I have had a JD 450B, not a bad old machine but I have certainly had to put some bucks in the old girl. She worked pretty good for my uses and I learned to take it easy on the old girl and not abuse her too bad for the things I needed to accomplish.

But I got tired of running her for a couple of hours and fixing her about the same. So I started looking. My goals were a little bigger machine with relatively low hours. I found if you looked at JD, Cat, and somewhat Case, what I could get for my dollar was not meeting my requirements. So I started looking at Dresser/Dressta machines. WAY more machine for the dollar, and pretty well respected. I was able to make a deal on a 2007 Dressta TD7M LT that had sweeps, rear screen and full rock guards with 245 hours, for what I feel was a song. The guy even treated me decent on trading my 450B. Now I only figure to average about 100 hours a year or so and this machine should give me good service with hopefully minimal repairs. She is a LOT more machine than my 450B, that is for sure! Depending on who's specs you are reading, 17,000 - 17,500 pounds or so. I can also work on her, unlike the hydro drive type machines.

For what you want to do, check out the Dresser/Dressta machines, as I did, you may find your dollars going a lot further!

 

[stumpjumper83]

how are the parts men treating you dresser/ dressta guys right now? I heard that the poland plant was shut down and parts were a little difficult right now.

 

[clansing1]

Dresser/Dressta Equipment

The engines are Cummins, so that is not a problem.

The undercarriages pads, chains, and rollers are pretty easy to find. Idlers are somewhat difficult to find, but we have a couple of spares on hand.

We just rebuilt a 412B Scraper transmission and I was able to find everything through Komatsu and Dresser dealers and the bearings through Motion Industries.

We also find some through parts machines.

The internet is a great tool if you have the ability to utilitize it and a Part Number.

Some parts are available through Dresser/Komatsu Surplus.

I do not rely on one dealer to find parts for us.

The Dresser/International machines are very durable and mechanically sound. The Dressta machines are the same except the joystick steering is junk, electrical components are inexpensive and poor quality, and the wiring "is like a bowl of spaghetti."

 

[Rockpile]

I am cobbling together a lot of US aftermarket suppliers for my 1981 TD8E. I have had mechanics at the Komatsu dealers describe the interruptions in parts availability. Just a guess, I'll bet my problems will be ongoing , but pretty steady....old machine = harder to find parts= more $$$.....HOWEVER....I was pricing some JD450C parts for a friend who had a chance to buy a "fixer-upper" for a song. It would have been a double $$$ album if he had gone ahead. Pricing parts to rebuild my TD8 6-way blade from top to bottom cost 1/3 what they were asking for the JD parts. I can't believe I was quoted $300.-$700 for INDIVIDUAL wear parts on the 6 way tilt....and there are several of them. The JD parts man told me that the parts were "third party" supplied...and we needed to be right, because they were not returnable. I believe an "in frame" rebuild set for the DT 239 is about $1000....not pocket change, but seems in line. I have not located rebuilt injector pump....torque converter....transmission...yet, but I have seen them described recently in these forums.
This is a really good topic for a separate thread....I'd love to hear the positives and negatives of all the supply chains.

I am moderately mechanically inclined.....not shop-grade heavy equip mechanic, but was USMC trained diesel mechanic, and have a few years in shops on Peters Road in NOLA. I keep my farm and furniture shop humming...the TD8E fits me perfect.....the parts are the right size....and they look LEGO simple so far.

I will ask the same question of all you who know the TD series dozers....is there a "sweet-spot" model/year that is easy to find parts for.....I see a lot of TD6 and TD9 parts listings. More than my TD8.

 

[Iron@Dirt]

Just got my D39p-1/TD9h dozer running after about a year of part time repairs. Went thru right final complete, right idler rebuild, 4 cylinder rebuilds, bore and sleeve 4 angle cylinder padeyes, torque convertor rebuild, steering clutch and brakes rebuild, left lower final rebuild and new front idler, hydraulic valve rebuild and more. Was worried at times about parts, but from looking around found everything I needed so far. Parts supply could probably be worse later or aftermarket could step in and make more parts, who knows. Just ran it a few hours on a job lately, it will do tons of more work than my JD350B. Simple, twice the weight, twice the horsepower(and a lot more fuel efficent) and three times the handling. But glad I didnt give up on it, its quite a machine, and no computers for us shade treees.

 

[SE-Ia Cowman]

Just a thought but there are some farmers around here moveing there dozers and excavators with lowboy trailors that have a dolly wheel with a fith wheel plate on it and pulling it with a ag tractor, that will eliminate your worrys of DOT and I am guessing if you have a feedlot then you have a ag tractor 150 hp mfwd will pull a lot on level ground. This route would give you a way to get a more usable sized machine for your needs. A old lowboy and semi frame with rear drivers and 5th wheel plate still attached could be a small investment.

 

[Randy88]

I'd agree with se ia cowman on the trailer deal, with one exception, forget the fifth wheel altogether, there was a guy for decades that had the simplest trailer I'd ever seen, he made it out of two front truck axles and some channel iron, it was a ground loading tilt of sorts, the slickest trailer ever, for not much investment at all and the best part was you didn't have to drive over the deck to load it, he used front truck axles and the loaded height was about a foot off the ground, pull it with any tractor, even something of 70-80 hp and your set for life. I borrowed his to haul my jd 450c crawler loader around between farms behind my 3020 jd tractor, the trailer weighed nothing and was simple to build, no lights, license, dot to worry about ever and no worries about dropping it off the side of any trailer, make it the width of the dozer you get and nobody can borrow it either.

I'd opt for a crawler loader myself, if I only had one machine to buy, way more useful than any dozer and if you've got livestock and manure to load or tree's to doze out you have a lot more leverage with a loader than any dozer three times its size, as for building ponds, size isn't an issue if you have time on your hands, I've built over 4000 feet of terraces with just that one crawler loader, several ponds and dozed more tree's than most do in a lifetime, but you need time to do it, the only thing a larger one will do is speed the process up considerably.

Loader versions should also be cheaper than dozer versions, but not always, I'd opt for a dresser model or komatsu model as well, a lot simpler design than deeres and easier to work on too, dresser makes a nice machine, run several loader versions and the cummins engine is a real bonus over the others made in my opinion, first off they start and run better, easy to get parts for and are affordable to repair. I don't know if I'd worry about the parts thing on dresser, for the hours your putting on its not going to be a big deal, and those machines should be way cheaper than anything else out there if you look some and find deals.

 

[KRob]

I am interested in some of the ideas i heard about moving the dozer but unfortunately i kinda wanted to be able to move it a little further then i would want to do with a tractor.

Looking at the specs i see that a TD7G, which i might have found one close by, is a little bigger then a jd450 but do you think it would be big enough? Or should i stay with looking for a TD8.

Also im confused i see some of you say Dresser/International and Dresser/Komatsu whats the relationship between the these. I got the Dresser/Dressta one.

Thanks, also can anyone refer me to a good write up on U/C judging them ect.

Thanks
Rob

 

[storm56]

Not much difference between a TD7 and a TD8. My thoughts are if the 7 will not do it, the 8 won't either. Need to get into the TD9 & 10 class to get a larger heavier machine. If you found a good deal on a nice 7, go for it. Do not pass it up looking for an 8.

 

[Rockpile]

Just happened to spend my evening immersed in undercarriage evaluation instead of home brew and chasin' the wife around the barnyard.....I hit some good stuff. BTW....I don't know jack about pins and bushings and rails and chains.....but I'm a quick learner. I am about to post pictures of my undercarriage for an evaluation by the experts here....THANKS GUYS, FOR ALL THE INFO.

LOOK AT THESE

http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/undrcarguide.pdf .......WOW....LOTS OF INFO.

http://www.tractorparts.com/undercarriage.htm

http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14081/css/14081_270.htm

http://murphyused.com/specs.php ........LOTS OF SPECS ON DOZERS

The guys here can run you through the TD7-8-9, E and G series, and their differences....I do know that if I can sell my TD8E in the next few months and make a few $K on it....I am looking for a bit later TD8G.....just want to stay in the sweet spot between "old" and "parts readily available". AND, I may change my mind, based on info that I gather here. I believe the key ingredients that you should shoot for In the TD series is the "newer" short transmission, and Cummins power plant. I have read....but don't know first hand yet, that the transmissions in the later ( ser# 9500 +)TD7 to TD 12 are THE SAME UNIT.... that means a later 7 or 8E or G, at 70-90 hp has the advantage of an overkill in durability and service in its transmission/torque converter that accommodates a 50+ hp increase in the larger units..

The "Red Power Forum" has a lot of old International mechanics and fans in the Pacific Northwest on it. It is said that there are more of them in that area than anywhere else.... like anything else...I am just "learning" all this, and may pick up some bum info....so filter well.....

 

[KRob]

Rockpile, thanks for all the information.

Just happened to spend my evening immersed in undercarriage evaluation instead of home brew and chasin' the wife around the barnyard.....

I will also say that is one of my most favorite lines to get me out of social settings, except i say chasen' the wife around the house....i may change my phrasing.

Anyway, i guess i have found my reading material for tomorrow evening, thanks
Rob