What is the difference in capabilities between the 3, 4, and 5 ton mini excavators?

[Country_hick]

I need to clear several acres that used to be fields and to remove 3 beaver dams. It will take me quite some time to get it done which makes renting cost ineffective. I would go with a backhoe except I know it would sink into the wet ground.

I was looking at a GEHL until I found out there is no dealer support in my area. No dealer support means I need to find a different machine that does have dealer support.

How much difference is there in the ability to move dirt and dig out stumps between a 3, 4, and 5 ton excavator? Is it worth getting a 5 ton over a 3 ton considering the bigger one likely has more expensive parts and uses more fuel? Is resale better for one of these weight classes or are they all about the same?

I plan on going with a brand name machine with local support. That would include Kubota, John Deere, Cat, Volvo, Yanmar, and Wacker Neuson that I am aware of.

When do well maintained mini-excavators usually need repairs and what typically breaks? Do rubber tracks usually last a long time if they are not cut up by going over sharp rocks or stumps?

 

[Allan M]

I have limited experience since I've only owned and driven one machine: U55-4 Kubota with cab at 12.8k lbs or 6.4 tons. I mainly use it for road building on hilly terrain, tree and brush clearing, and general odd jobs like taking down old out buildings. My view reading the threads on this site for a couple years, research, operator experience on my machine and my compact tractor backhoe is this: the game is all about weight and power...and how fast you need to get a job done. My compact tractor backhoe only has 3500 lbs of break force. I can't knock over a tree with it. I can dig out a stump but many oak roots 4" and thicker or too much for it to handle. So, I need to use an axe or dig a much bigger hole to remove the stump. The kubota has just over 11k lbs of ground break force is a beast. I can knock small trees down and take out larger trees with big roots by usually digging around three sides snapping roots. I have good reach and depth. When clearing land I can pick up 25' logs and easily move these around. I can't image that a smaller machine, say at 3 or 4 ton could really handle the work I'm doing. I've also been told always buy a bit bigger than you think you need...which might be true. My compact tractor is light for road grading and other tasks that I put it through. I would suggest something that experienced operators have said many times on this site: "Rent a machine or two to help you determine the size you need." I wouldn't buy a machine unless I had tried it out (or something of similar weight and capability). I also think most main name brands are likely dependable--as long as you take good care of the machine. A dealer within service range is critical as you already noted. Each machine has it's idiosyncrasies. My kubota has awkward control peddles in the cab.

I have rubber tracks. I also have a lot of asphalt road on my property that I cross or drive on to get the excavator to different locations (help neighbors at times). If you're not going to drive on paved roads then steel tracks could be an option for you. What appears to be tough on rubber tracks is demo work (rip rap), a lot of sharp rocks, metal scrap, etc... My tracks are cut up a bit but most of that damage was done before I bought the machine. I do wind up cutting through serpentine rock (very sharp) in some areas of my road building. I try to drive carefully in these areas.

I've put about 600 hours on my machine now at 2500 hrs. My only issues has been knocking loose hydraulic lines on the arm when clearing heavy brush and taking down trees. Kinda' a Kubota design flaw and clearly my skill or lack thereof as an operator. The fix has always been tightening the line fittings that got knocked loose. I do think that if you're going to work in water that careful lubrication before and after the job is important to keep water and debris out of bearing surfaces.

I got a good cash deal on the machine i purchased because it was a little big for the landscape company to haul around to jobs. They preferred a 4 ton sized machine. And, while they do take down some trees, they are mainly working in residential areas where a smaller machine that can fit in tighter places is desirable. I could use a bigger machine on some of the tasks I tackle...but I also use my machine in close to houses on the property, barns, etc... I think the size and weight is just right for my needs. So, I suspect the resale on machines that are 3 to 5 ton is always good because of versatile application.

Final note: size matters. If you're going to be taking down trees, moving rocks (I have many large rocks 500+ lbs), building roads, etc... then I don't think a 5 ton machine is big enough. If you're just digger beaver dams and you can reach these with a smaller machine I don't think major power is needed there. Good luck in your quest.

 

[skyking1]

You are looking at a 40~70K investment. It sounds like you have little experience.
My advice would be to rent some machines. I can't see your jobsite to make a recommendation, but you can get a 35 and a 50 and see for yourself, for around 1K.
Once you get large enough you will have emissions systems that can be very costly. Look into that too.
The 35 has nothing on it to qualify for tier 4, because the horsepower is below a certain threshold.

 

[Country_hick]

I am well aware of emission related expenses. I bought a 1997 Dodge ram 3500 with the 12 valve Cummins with a bit over 100k miles about 10 years ago just to avoid emissions related problems the newer diesels can have. I still have a low mile mechanical diesel truck in great shape with under 140k miles which is almost impossible to find today. I have what I need when I need it. Unfortunately, it now needs tires.

I would either need to get a 2012 or older machine or stay below the tier 4 hp requirements because of emissions crap no one wants. There is one other option. Get a fairly new used machine with few hours and sell it in 1-3 years still with low hours and within the emissions warranty period.

I admit I have little experience with excavators. I have used tractors but they are not even close to the same machine.

Pricewise I have seen 1,500 hour or less machines in the 3 to 5 ton range going from $21k up to $48k (plus $1-3k for shipping). Most are in the $30-37k range. Depreciation seems minimal after 3 to 5 years which seems to then be based on condition and hours. Then the question of obsolescence comes into play. Are parts readily available for the older machines?

Then there is the added cost of a trailer and other needed accessories.

I know weight and stronger hydraulics help to get more work done faster. What I do not know is how much faster and how much more work a bigger machine can do.

I can see the stats, but real-world experience outweighs numbers.
I have yet to see anything comparing how fast a 3 ton, 4 ton, 5 ton, and 6 ton machine can get the same job done. Obviously, the bigger machine would be faster, but how much faster and is the extra speed worth the higher costs a bigger machine has?

The perfect excavator would weigh under 4,000 pounds for easy trailering and be able to move 18 tons of dirt at a time with a 12" bucket. Every machine is a compromise. The perfect machine does not and cannot exist. An excavator somewhere around 3 to 3 1/2 tons can be safely transported on a 10k trailer. A 4 to 5 ton excavator requires a more expensive 14k trailer and a bigger than the standard 10k tow hitch and larger weight distribution bars or a clanging pintle hitch. Buying much more than a 6 ton excavator means you should have something bigger than a ton truck to tow it. I have seen a $15,000 40 ton excavator for sale but it is to expensive to move, maintain and is almost impossible to resell. To get the job done something that is too big can be as bad as something that is too small (like the 1 ton doorway accessible excavators).

 

[skyking1]

That's why I suggest him spending $1,000 to rent a machine instead of spending $30,000 to buy the wrong one.
You don't have a gauge to measure to. If you're talking about working on one piece of property and then getting rid of it, then getting the biggest functioning machine you can is the way to go.
It only gets moved twice and the buyer does it the second time.
When it comes to digging anything wet like Beaver dams, reach matters.
When you need to get rid of material, reach matters.
That's what I find the most annoying about smaller machines. I can get in there and dig it. Sure, but then I've got to move it three times.
If I can bring the 120 to a job I do because of that reason.
You can get in and work next to all sorts of stuff with a bigger machine.

You just have to think about the work.
On this job I had both the mini and the 120, and it was easier for me to dig and track this trench with the 120 than it was the mini.


Often times when you're up against things you have nowhere to put the dirt anyway and you're tracking it out of there.
Now the extra reach pays off!


That little bit of inconvenience for 10% of your work is paid back a million fold by the ability to swing a bucket of dirt 35 or 40 ft from one side of the circle to the other.

 

[skyking1]

In terms of dollars, I would rather roll the dice on this gray market 228 komatsu with no butt and the bunny feet tracks for 38.5,
If my goal was to stump and clear and mess around on one piece of property. It'll do more work in one day than you can get done with any mini in a week.
https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/hvo/d/kent-excavator/7608239140.html

If your goal is to move it around and do jobs with it, then pick the biggest one you can move.

 

[Country_hick]

I would not have expected a big excavator to reach in there so easily. Obviously, a very skilled operator was at the controls.

That's what I find the most annoying about smaller machines. I can get in there and dig it. Sure, but then I've got to move it three times.
If I can bring the 120 to a job I do because of that reason.
You can get in and work next to all sorts of stuff with a bigger machine.

You just have to think about the work.
On this job I had both the mini and the 120, and it was easier for me to dig and track this trench with the 120 than it was the mini.

I thought I might try to get a few side jobs but nothing full time. Clearing up several acres should be good training to allow me to do more important and precise work later on.

I do not argue that I have little that I can reference. I tend to research a lot before just buying something. Sometimes that means I miss out on a good deal. Sometimes it means I avoided getting the wrong thing.

 

[skyking1]

I think that a renting a machine or two is the best way to avoid getting the wrong thing. That's what I'm saying. You could cut to the chase and rent a 50, and then imagine trying to do it with something smaller

 

[MG84]

I’ve run all of the size machines you are looking at, with the most seat time on 4 and 6 ton machines. Ones I’ve run in that size range are Tak TB260, Kubota kx040 and kx121-3, Case CX57c, Gehl 503z, Bobcat E42 and E32, probably some others I’m forgetting.

The three biggest factors I notice about a machine are 1) Reach, 2) Breakout force, 3) Transportability, in that order. If you are hauling it a lot and/or your borderline on truck/trailer capacity the transport issue may be the deciding factor. Realistically a 3.5-4 ton machine, on a 14k trailer, is the biggest safe size to pull with a pickup. Get up to a 6 ton and you aren’t moving it legally without a CDL and a medium duty truck.

Once on the job site the reach is the biggest thing I personally notice. If you’ve spent much time on a full size backhoe you’ll find the reach of any in the 3-5t range a bit disappointing. Really you have to go up to an 8 ton machine to equal the reach of a TLB. Its nice to be able to reach over and around a 24” stump without moving the machine, reach 12’ up a tree to push it over, reach down over a creek bank, etc. Next factor is breakout force, although the only time this comes into play for me is clearing land, stumping, or digging in shale or rock. The amount of breakout force on some of the 6 ton machines is substantial compared to a 3.5-4 ton machine.

I agree with the others on renting some different machines to try out. I also agree that you should get the biggest machine you can if its not going to be moved. There are times when a small machine is a necessity, but stumping and clearing land certainly isn’t one of them. I also wouldn’t totally rule out a full size 4wd backhoe. While not as ‘cool’ as an excavator, you get a lot of work capacity for the money.

 

[KSSS]

As mentioned by someone, you really don't have anything to compare against. Rent a 5-6 ton machine and decide for yourself what you think of the capabilities. That will likely give you the info you need. You could move a machine that size with what you have, maybe not great, but good enough for a guy that isn't likely pulling it everyday.

 

[CM1995]

What others have said - Rent first. It will be money well spent.

A 5 ton machine becomes real small clearing several acres. We have a 305 which is a 12K lb machine and it's a very nice mini but I'm not taking it to clear 2-3 acres. There is a world of difference performance wise between a 8K machine compared to a 12K.

Also be very careful clearing beaver dams, the worst I have ever stuck a 334 BC mini-ex was clearing a beaver dam. Even with a T250 on dry hard ground chained to a tree pulling, it took us 6 hours to get it out. Took 3 hours to wash all the mud and sediment out of the engine compartment when we got it back to the yard..


You shouldn't have to worry about DEF on machines this small. Anything below 74 HP only has a DPF filter, no DEF after treatment. Cat makes a 74 HP 313 excavator weighing in at 30K lb for example.

Most important question - How much is your budget?

Second question - How often do you need to move it?

 

[skyking1]

I'd look at this as a two part situation. A mini and clearing is just painful.
1) get some big hunk of iron after you have a guy look at it for you. Lowboy is a grand.
Go to work on the property and if all goes well, nothing but miles and miles of smiles.
2) rent a mini for those side jobs that you *MAY OR MAY NOT DO*!!!!!
don't hobble yourself with a mini on a chance you might want to move it.
If you can't make money renting to do a side job, you absolutely positively have no business doing said side job.
Period.
End of story.


We have a guy locally to me that would look at a big machine for less than a grand. There is probably somebody like that near you too.
Money well spent IMO.

 

[Orest Anhel]

I have a 3.5 ton Yanmar Vio35-3 excavator that I use on 4 pieces of rural property ranging from 3 to 155 acres and separated by 400 miles so transport is an important consideration for me. I have used it to trench in about 2500 feet of waterline and in conjunction with a JD450 and a 6X14 foot dump trailer dozer rehab fire guards run across the big property during the 2018 fire season that were put in with a D7 and a 30 ton excavator. There was lots of bucking getting downed trees to size that I could manage but it got done in the end. Pretty much every hour or more I was wanting just a little more reach or a little more lift. If I could afford an excavator just for the 155 acre property a 10 or 12 ton machine seems like a nice combination of reach, lift-dig power and nimbleness. The 3.5 ton will push over 6-8 inch trees pines and move them around pretty easily when bucked in half. We have done a lot of trail building and fuel reduction work thinning and removing downed trees and it works well for this but a 45-50-60 size machine would do better with a negligible increase in foot print. I could haul 11,700 pound max on my trailer which puts me into a 50 size machine and this is what I would buy next time around. I use the boom swing about 3 times a year and for what I do would prefer a conventional style excavator without boom swing. The pin and bushing the boom swings on are likely the hardest working fastest wearing pins on the machine.

 

[skyking1]

The pin and bushing the boom swings on are likely the hardest working fastest wearing pins on the machine.

That has never been my experience. It has been the bucket pin, followed by the boom heel. Funny how it was either end of the business.

 

[CM1995]

Same here. The boom swing P&B's are the tightest pins on our 305E.