What do you use on under carrriage bolts

[QuickTrax]

What we use is red loctite on sprocket bolts or sprocket segment bolts. We use a mixture of 90wt and anti-sieze on the track bolts. Anti-sieze on the rollers bolts. We see machines over and over again and the track bolts are usually still wet, the roller bolts come out, and the sprocket or segment bolts are never loose. Alot of people will dip the roller bolts in grease but they will be dry when time to replace rollers. We have tried many different lubricants on the track bolts and we have found 90wt mixed with anti-sieze works best for us.

 

[lozenger1967]

And always give the bolt and the area around it a slap with a big hammer to crack the rust. before undoing the bolt. spent many a day welding nuts to broken bolts to get them out

 

[rosewood]

Couldn't agree more with the Stockholme tar.
Having been using it for twenty years after an old bloke put me onto it.
A bit dubious to start with, but still find it to be the best stuff out for undercarriage and cutting edge bolts.

 

[clansing1]

Deja vu on the undercarriage bolts.

Stockholm tar aka pine tar.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...lt-removal-suggestion&highlight=stockholm+tar

 

[Bob Queberg]

As a toolmaker who grew up on a 80a. farm, w/15 horses, and some old equipment w/ square heads/nuts, I have used some pine tar on the hoses. None of them had rusty nuts. The biggest issue is to put enough good water repellent grease on the bolt threads to fill all of the internal spaces, and extrude a bit out of the hole. A properly made Unified thread has a slight flat, at both the crest and root, equal to 1/8 the pitch of the thread. This makes a helical opening for water to wick into. As was mentioned, the bolt length is critical. Once an over-length bolt is pushed into the taper at the bottom of the threaded hole, you are fighting friction on the thread flanks, and also on the bottom threads that have been deformed by the wedgie. Another thread idea that I learned while owning a Case steam traction engine, is a thick mixture of Lubriplate 930AA, and flake graphite on all pipe threads that went into the boiler. 2-3 years later the fittings came out with the same torque that they went in with.
It is better to over grease a bolt than having to remove the threads from a hole in a part that can not be set on a mill table.
Regards,
Bob

 

[diggerop]

What makes loctite go off? Is it pressure, exclusion of air/oxygen or something else? As it can sit in the bottle for ages and still seems to work. Sometimes with the lid off...Oops

 

[Zed]

It's anaerobic, which means it works with the absence of air. Thats why if your using say 518 flange sealant on metal to metal surface, the excess that gets squeezed out stays sticky and doesnt go off.

 

[OldandWorn]

Yeah, i'm still using Loctite from the 70's.

 

[diggerop]

Thanks Zed, I also meant to ask, how long does it take to go off?

 

[OzDozer]

Granpa & Scrub Puller have nailed it good, particularly about the bolt shanks being too long and the exposed part corroding. Spent many a day getting broken bolts out of track frames.
Always used Never-Seize (now a Loctite brand) on re-assembly, never had any problems thereafter. Vital to use the stuff on manifold studs and nuts to prevent lots of unnecessary additional work.

Interesting to hear about the Stockholm Tar. Never used it, only heard of it being used in the horse days. I guess it isn't much good in hot conditions (manifolds, etc)?
A lot of tree saps and resins are superb rust preventatives - poplar bark is typical, it's full of iron tannates, that are natural rust-preventatives.
If you look up the story about the WW2 German tank recovered from the pond in Eastern Europe, you'll see the pond is bordered by poplar trees. The tannins in the poplar bark preserved the tank something amazing.

 

[RDG]

Our guys in the workshop use a thick black almost tar like substance that we dip the bolts in before putting them in, not sure what its called but stockholm tar would be a good name for it . Will have to ask the fitters what it is . Cheers RDG.

 

[bulletpruf]

Bumping an ancient thread; anyone have any updated info on Stockholm tar? I'm fighting rusty and snapped off bolts (not undercarriage) and trying to keep from repeating this process again. Appears that it acts as an anti-seize and a mild thread-locker, too.

 

[Welder Dave]

A shop that does a lot of undercarriage told me to use blue Loctite on the bottom rollers bolts. You can get surface insensitive Loctite that isn't affected by a little oil on the threads. Bolts don't come loose and the Loctite also prevents them from getting seized/ rusted solid.

 

[Coaldust]

Stockholm tar? Sounds like some type of European heroin. Just say no. Once you go on the smack, you ain’t coming back.

 

[John C.]

Over fifty years in the business and I generally used whatever the manufacturer recommended. Sprocket bolts were always a problem after the first set were changed. Because of slight movement between the drive wheel and the sprocket segments would promote slight movements over time, we used to weld around the corners of the segment to the drive wheel to help hold things tight. For the bottom rollers we used anti seize and then welded a piece of 1" by 3/16" bar stock to the flats of the roller bolt heads on each side. The bar went from one bolt across to the other bolt. Thread lock compounds and all the fancy chemical concoctions I've found only make the installer feel good until it has to be taken apart again or the fastener snaps off in the hole. I have yet to find anything that would prevent corrosion in the undercarriage bolt holes after running the 3,500 for dozers and to 7,000 hours or more of service life on excavators.

 

[bulletpruf]

Over fifty years in the business and I generally used whatever the manufacturer recommended. Sprocket bolts were always a problem after the first set were changed. Because of slight movement between the drive wheel and the sprocket segments would promote slight movements over time, we used to weld around the corners of the segment to the drive wheel to help hold things tight. For the bottom rollers we used anti seize and then welded a piece of 1" by 3/16" bar stock to the flats of the roller bolt heads on each side. The bar went from one bolt across to the other bolt. Thread lock compounds and all the fancy chemical concoctions I've found only make the installer feel good until it has to be taken apart again or the fastener snaps off in the hole. I have yet to find anything that would prevent corrosion in the undercarriage bolt holes after running the 3,500 for dozers and to 7,000 hours or more of service life on excavators.

Interesting point about anti-seize and welding bar stock to bottom roller bolts. Same concept as safety wire, but heavy duty stuff.

 

[Coaldust]

Interesting point about anti-seize and welding bar stock to bottom roller bolts. Same concept as safety wire, but heavy duty stuff.

Pretty standard practice in the PNW. I thought that was the only way. Even the brand new machines rolled out of the dealership like that. Just part of new machine set up along with the paper floor mats and Caterpillar air freshener on the rear view.

 

[Welder Dave]

Liberal application of Loctite and/or anti-sieze should suffice if torqued properly. Original bolts rarely come loose. Can't see why new bolts can't be put in similar to original bolts. Welding flat bar to the track frame to prevent the bolt turning could be a failsafe. Welding directly to the bolts could compromise them.

 

[oldtom]

On track shoe bolts - black (graphite) anti-sieze under the bolt head and on the thread. As Tom V said on another thread the other day, if the shoes or links are new take the paint off the back of them first.
On roller bolts - copper anti-seize after having run a tap into the threded hole first to clean it out.
Sprocket segment bolts - whatever the service manual procedure calls for.

Based on personal experience I'm always a bit wary of what torque to put on a bolt when the procedure in the manual doesn't call for putting anti-sieze on it. You have to back the torque way down and you're never sure what tension you're putting on the bolt.

Nige go back in time, Stockholm's tar wont wash over ,and good for cuts and cheap

 

[oldtom]

The best stuff I have ever used on undercarriage bolts was Stockholm Tar. One of my bosses told me about it years ago when we were due to change a heap of load rollers on a demag H255. I'd never heard of it but he swore it was the best stuff, previously we always had problems with the nuts seized, then having to gas axe them to remove roller. Demags have a bolt/ nut setup through the track frame, and the nut had a plate welded to the side so it didn't turn when tensioning. We had used anti seize before but still had dramas. Like mentioned before in this thread, there was always some bolt thread protruding after the nut, totally exposed. So before this shutdown, we bought 2 x 4 litre tins of Stockholm tar, and before installing the bolts we dip the whole bolt into the tin, and because its liquid. its quick and easy. I remember next time we had to change rollers on that machine, not 1 nut was seized and it was a breeze. I was amazed at how good it was. Anti seize is good, but I'd recommend stockholm tar to anyone.

Better than all the chemicals base one