To DEF or not to DEF

[Dan Watrous]

I am going to look at 2 different machines for sale on the internet. A 2015 Cat 314E LCR with 4900 hours and no DEF and a 2018 Volvo ECR145EL with DEF and 2300 hours. Both have a progressive link thumb, quick coupler, auxiliary hydraulics and include a digging bucket.
The Cat is owned by a father and son general engineering business including some demolition of houses and concrete slabs.
The Volvo is owned by one of the largest engineering and demolition firms on the west coast such as making/repairing roads and demolition of stadiums.
The owners each want $90k. If I go to those dealerships, $90k will get me an 8 ton machine. The Cat and Volvo dealers are 20 - 30 miles away. Both dealers are part of statewide dealerships in California.
My use is making roads through a forest, so power and the thumb are needed. It will be 200-300 hours a year for 10+ years.

Anything specific I should inspect for each machine? A 16 ton machine is as large as I could imagine wanting. Should I look more into the 8 ton machines, which is as small as I would want? In the 8 ton machines it is hard to find a progressive link thumb and steel tracks, but they include a blade that could be useful. Any advice is welcome, Thanks

 

[IceHole]

Can't imagine a 16k machine being very efficient at grubbing. I'm sure it'll do it, but it'll be pretty slow.
I have a 10k machine at home. It's definitely not tearing stumps out in one grab or moving piles of logs


We did alot of logging work with a 200 and 330, that's what, 20 and 33 ton?
I'd say 200 size is about the smallest I'd consider. Ideally with a forestry package. (Guards, higher frame, single grouser pads)

 

[BC Placer gold]

We did a fair bit of clearing and road building with a Hitachi ZX 135 & ZX 120. Can do a lot of work for sure; both had pro-link thumbs..

I have also done some road pioneering (in light bush/buckbrush) with a 5 ton. That said; for the last 7 years we have been using a 21 ton, really no comparison to the smaller machines…safer/increased stability in steep ground, especially when in larger timber. This machine has no thumb! So have got pretty good at dealing with trees by using toothed dig bucket…

 

[Tyler d4c]

Man you guys are big time uncle cleared many a stump with a 307ssr and before it was around a 310b.

 

[CM1995]

Without physically inspecting both machines I would go with the non-DEF 314 but I'm a Cat guy that doesn't like DEF.

Also would lean to the smaller company as equipment is usually better taken care of. Again without seeing the machines in person or at least some detailed pics it's hard to give advice.

30K lb machine is very capable of clearing, grubbing and cutting roads in. My first large excavator was a 315CL and we literally moved a mountain with it.

 

[Lagwagon]

I’d buy the Volvo, delete the DEF and make some people on here mad

 

[BC Placer gold]

Without physically inspecting both machines I would go with the non-DEF 314 but I'm a Cat guy that doesn't like DEF.

Also would lean to the smaller company as equipment is usually better taken care of. Again without seeing the machines in person or at least some detailed pics it's hard to give advice.

30K lb machine is very capable of clearing, grubbing and cutting roads in. My first large excavator was a 315CL and we literally moved a mountain with it.

Agree wholeheartedly, we moved a large amount of gravel as well as completed a good amount of road building with a 12 ton. All this in very steep mountainous country. Also a lot easier to transport (if needed). Bonus: very low fuel consumption/yard moved!

 

[BC Placer gold]

We work in extremely remote locations, with very difficult access (4-8hours by pickup)….and impassable when rainy so all of our equipment is pre-emissions). A service call would be cost prohibitive….therefore all equipment on site is pre-emissions…

If you are closer to ‘town’ then may not be such a factor…

Also our machinery ’winters over’ so long periods of sitting…..probably not conducive to def etc.

I would lean towards the Cat 314!

 

[CM1995]

I’d buy the Volvo, delete the DEF and make some people on here mad

Wouldn't say you'd make anyone on here mad.

 

[Dan Watrous]

I called the Cat owner about an appointment this weekend. It's for sale but having second thoughts as the 315 he just bought was in the dealer with DEF issues for 2 weeks. Progress

Great point about it sitting lonely for long periods, especially in the winter. We are at 6k feet altitude and 10 miles from the giant sequoias so we get plenty of snow.

Anyone have a link on the dark web for tricking the sensors when you rip the DEF out?

 

[Shimmy1]

Anyone have a link on the dark web for tricking the sensors when you rip the DEF out?

Talking about it is one thing, but you won't get any info whatsoever here.

 

[Tags]

I think the biggest problem you’ll find is all the electronics (connectors, sensors, wiring)that are associated with the emission systems more so than the actual emission components. we have machines that are run constantly every day with emission systems, and 90% of the time when there’s a problem it’s an issue with the wiring, like a burnt pin in a bad connection or a wiring harness that was just long enough to reach his destination that has rubbed through or a tiny Varmint has gotten in there and done damage. If that machine is going to sit in the woods, unused for long periods of time, you should definitely try any and all products to keep tiny critters out of the engine department and the cab, which is nearly impossible to do.

I think the size machine you are looking for would do fine for what you want to do, if it has a blade, that’s even more helpful for stabilizing the machine and knocking down loose material.A ripper tooth will do wonders on that size machine for removing large stumps and boulders too, so a quick coupler would be handy as well.

 

[CM1995]

Anyone have a link on the dark web for tricking the sensors when you rip the DEF out?

No - not here on HEF. Defeating emissions systems is against US law, HEF is located in the US so we will not promote any discussion of such.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Dan Watrous]

So sorry to type over the lines here. Please stop all the private messages now, more than a hundred is just too many on this illegal matter. No DEF will be harmed in this endeavor, I promise.

Thanks for the advice on the critters. We have 3 bears frequently on our trail cameras, but I can see starting to hate the mice and squirrels.