replacing old hydraulic fan on cat 246 skid steer

[shawnseveras]

so long story short i am replacing the old hydraulic fan motor and assembly. i will be installing an electric motor in its stead.
i will be disconnecting the offload line part number- 148-8385 and putting a plug there. then i am disconnecting the inflow line for the hydraulic fan motor and linking it with the outflow. in the old fans place will be a 3000 rpm electric cooling fan with a temp sensor and a relay switch. so when it reaches a certain temp on the radiator it will turn on automatically. it will also turn off automatically. it will be a direct connect to the battery with an unplug option. i didn't see anything like this done before and i don't know why. so if this seems like a bad idea let me know now thanks. besides its $45 vrs the replacement fan motor from cat being $650. also the old fan is non optional the figure 8 seals on it are done for inside the motor.



equipment # 5sz02611

 

[Tyler d4c]

Personally I thing I'd be find a hydraulic motor for it I dont have much trust in electric fans theres a reason most all equipment doesn't have electric fans. Also you may not have enough alternator to keep up.

 

[shawnseveras]

the alternator gives out 55 amps and the fan requires and draws 15 amps. so i think it will be fine. the main concern is weather or not the fan will be able to keep going with dust and dirt.

 

[Nige]

Off the subject of the fan motor for a moment, are you planning on removing the radiator for a complete external cleaning where the oil leak from the fan motor has clogged the core to a great extent..? From the photos it appears as though the air flow through the core has been severely reduced.

Just a thought. Have you tried a local hydraulic shop for the figure-8 motor seals..?

 

[shawnseveras]

Off the subject of the fan motor for a moment, are you planning on removing the radiator for a complete external cleaning where the oil leak from the fan motor has clogged the core to a great extent..? From the photos it appears as though the air flow through the core has been severely reduced.

Just a thought. Have you tried a local hydraulic shop for the figure-8 motor seals..?

yes i have tried a local shop and he said that they cant find those seals and that the only option was another hydraulic fan motor or an electric one. so i decided on the electric on being cheaper and just as effective. as far as the radiator the main structure itself looks fine but i will be taking it to be pressure washed soon. i just got the plug in today for the radiator. it is plugging the hole that was used to offload excess hydraulic fluid from the fan motor. ill be cleaning the entire engine compartment with a pressure washer. and yes i will be making sure not to get too close to the radiator. im aware that the fins are fragile.

also off topic thanks again nige for responding to another one of my posts. your insight is always welcome here.

The one thing that i am worried about now is whether or not the additional pressure from the loop will have adverse effects due to there not being a hydraulic motor in the mix anymore. further more having that plug in the radiator will it effect that too.

 

[Werty246]

Got the same issue, got new seal for GP motor then read these pumps have no re build kit. So why do they stock the shaft oil seal? If when you pull alart motor its likely that you'll damage internal gaskets. Makes no sense. Though about changing to electric fan also. Will try and fit new seal soon but guessing internal gaskets will probably break during tbis re fit. Guess l'll see

 

[shawnseveras]

yeah man dont put that seal on it. it doesnt fix the problem. the best bet is to wait or do what i did and get an electric fan. im sending the parts to my friend to see if he can make the same seals from a similar grade of material using a laser printer and a compressed gasket sheet. so if you standby ill let you know how it turns out. but yeah i cant find those seals anywhere atm. your talking about the figure 8 seals right werty246?

 

[Werty246]

Cool. Will do

 

[Werty246]

Just out of curiosity what year model is your 246, mines a 2002 with a black perkins engine. I noticed yours has a yellow cat motor with Cat badge.Cat must have used CAT and perkins motors or swapped to perkins at some stage.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Just out of curiosity what year model is your 246, mines a 2002 with a black perkins engine. I noticed yours has a yellow cat motor with Cat badge.Cat must have used CAT and perkins motors or swapped to perkins at some stage.

Yours is black because it's the original to the machine his is yellow because it is a cat reman

 

[Nige]

Got the same issue, got new seal for GP motor then read these pumps have no re build kit. So why do they stock the shaft oil seal?

Because the shaft oil seal is usually the one that leaks. As I explained on Shawn's other thread the fan motor (in common with a lot of components on the early Cat skid steer product line) is designed to be throw-away. This was done for cost reasons to make the machines competitive price-wise with established brands when Cat first entered the market back 20+ years ago. People like yourself and Shawn are the ones who suffer because you now have a 20 year-old machine with components on it that are deemed non-repairable. (As a sidebar if the figure-8 seal is leaking there is a fair bet that the reason for that is internal wear in the pump causing excessive pressure on the seal, so even a new seal won't necesarily be a long-term fix for the leak. It might fix it for a while, but it is likely to return in short order.)

Just out of curiosity what year model is your 246, mines a 2002 with a black perkins engine. I noticed yours has a yellow cat motor with Cat badge. Cat must have used CAT and perkins motors or swapped to perkins at some stage.

Cat bought Perkins in 1997. The only difference between the two engines is the paint colour and the badge. As Tyler says Reman engines were generally alll badged as Cat. Manufacturing location may also have some bearing on the colour/brand of the engine in the early days just after the merger which is when both your machines were produced.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Most all the really early machines with 3034 engines have reman engine as there was trouble with them alot of them didnt make 100 hours I have a 246 I bought for the engine to install in the 277 I had it has wrote in the engine compartment "new engine at 79 hours"

 

[shawnseveras]

Because the shaft oil seal is usually the one that leaks. As I explained on Shawn's other thread the fan motor (in common with a lot of components on the early Cat skid steer product line) is designed to be throw-away. This was done for cost reasons to make the machines competitive price-wise with established brands when Cat first entered the market back 20+ years ago. People like yourself and Shawn are the ones who suffer because you now have a 20 year-old machine with components on it that are deemed non-repairable. (As a sidebar if the figure-8 seal is leaking there is a fair bet that the reason for that is internal wear in the pump causing excessive pressure on the seal, so even a new seal won't necessarily be a long-term fix for the leak. It might fix it for a while, but it is likely to return in short order.)
Cat bought Perkins in 1997. The only difference between the two engines is the paint colour and the badge. As Tyler says Reman engines were generally all badged as Cat. Manufacturing location may also have some bearing on the colour/brand of the engine in the early days just after the merger which is when both your machines were produced.

as far as the seal leaking i believe that is because the seal is old itself. when seals are used and beyond 10+ years of service i believe that depending material used that the elasticity if said seal breaks down when exposed to certain fluids/heat over long periods of time. the figure 8 seals in question have to be removed gently because upon first inspection the seal broke apart with little pressure. now if the seals themselves were soft to the touch like say a brand new o ring and they are shredded i would believe that to be pressure/bad placement by user. but these seem to be very fragile and the motor nor the seals were never replaced. which would leave me to believe that it is the seals and not the motor itself. HOWEVER! there is a possibility that over time with multiple changes of hoses and changing of fluid that there has been (particle contamination) in the hydraulic fluid. and over time has worn down the insides. but yeah i have taken a look at a lot of components of the hydraulic motor and it seems like that is not the case. but like i said before im looking into cutting out my own seals or worst case getting new ones made via various services online. overall i will be looking at different materials to determine which is best for the motor. best case scenario is that it works amazing and people in need of the very same seals/gaskets can get them from me. i will continue to update this as i go.

here are just a few that make seals. http://canadarubbergroup.com/gaskets-for-hydraulic-systems/ http://www.quickcutgasket.com/gasketing-materials.html

 

[Werty246]

Thanks Shawn,Nige & Tyler, your info and experience is second to none. I was ripping my hair out trying to obtain info regarding hyd pump. 3034 oil pick up etc. You guys have set me straight. So much appreciated.

 

[check]

My 246 is a 2001 model. When I got it the fan motor seal was leaking oil all over the place. One of the thru bolts on the motor was missing. I bought a new seal and bolt at Cat for about 20 bucks and put it on, not being too optimistic. Two hour job including pressure wash. That was nearly 300 hours ago and no problems since.

 

[shawnseveras]

My 246 is a 2001 model. When I got it the fan motor seal was leaking oil all over the place. One of the thru bolts on the motor was missing. I bought a new seal and bolt at Cat for about 20 bucks and put it on, not being too optimistic. Two hour job including pressure wash. That was nearly 300 hours ago and no problems since.

yeah i have all of my thru bolts atm. if it were that simple i would be laughing atm. but yeah i bought the same top seal that rides the fan shaft and replaced it with no luck. same thing happened all over where oil was coming out of the shaft seal and going everywhere in the engine compartment.

@Werty246 no problem mate. the main thing now is seeing if you can get an aftermarket fan motor that matches the specs of thae one on the 246. or buying a brand new one from cat. besides that like i said ill be trying to make the seals myself. either way i hope you are able to get the problem resolved.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Thanks Shawn,Nige & Tyler, your info and experience is second to none. I was ripping my hair out trying to obtain info regarding hyd pump. 3034 oil pick up etc. You guys have set me straight. So much appreciated.

I have a parts engine if you want some used spares there free to your taking

 

[shawnseveras]

I have a parts engine if you want some used spares there free to your taking

he has the same problem as me with the hydraulic fan motor and the figure 8 seals the red ones.

 

[Werty246]

I'll give the seal a go. See how it goes, not expecting miracles from an 18 year old part but worth a try. Keen to see how the electric fan conversion goes with Shawn.Might end up going diwn that path too. Or fork out big$ for a new cat one. Seems a lot for a bloody cooling fan though. Cheers

 

[shawnseveras]

also these are the seals i spoke of. the red figure 8 seals for anyone wondering.