Newby with CAT 305.5E2 (not CR) -- I think the tracks are toast. Do I need new sprockets?

[Vetech63]

Agreed. I do not want to disassemble the spring.

But - - I think I can slide it out of the frame tube without disassembling it to make sure there are no rocks or mud in there. Right?

Yes

 

[Baxsie]

Well, that super good price from PropelParts.us on the CAT 305.5E2 top roller (333-5602) just got a little less good:

. . . Back to the rollers -- I decided to try propelparts.us for the top rollers: . . .

. . . The price seems very aggressive - $197 shipped for 2 pieces. CAT was $545 locally. . . .

So the new total is $287, still a lot less than $545. Interesting that someone is working on a Saturday.

 

[Baxsie]

I got the spring out. Muddy but nothing too exciting. Got the pressure washer out and sprayed off the spring and the tunnel channel or whatever:






I also gave the spring a pressure wash:






I intended to chase the threads on the grease valve and the hole. The threads are M15x1.5. Of course My set has M14 and M16. I have a tap and die ordered. I'm not so worried about the valve, but I do want to make sure the hole in the expensive cylinder is in good shape.

 

[Baxsie]

They are 10.9 M12 x 1.75 pitch x 50mm. Cat P/N 8T-4194
The washers are somewhat special if the P/N 219-3939 is anything to go by. They are 21.9 OD x 12.2 ID x 1.6mm thick.

I got some 10.9 bolts, and found that a 7/16 SAE Thick Grade 8 washer was a fair match for the one example I have:

The longitudinal channel in the body is to relieve the grease pressure when you want to de-tension the tracks.

Regarding removing the carrier roller shaft. How wide is the split in the top side of the mounting bracket.? If it is wide enough slide a pice of thin steel plate into it then put the setscrew back in from the opposite site and tighten. That will slightly open the split in the bracket and should help you get the shaft out.

Its full of dirt I'm sure. I've had success in using a worn-out flat screwdriver to insert in the gap. A couple or 3 hammer strikes to open the gap a tad does the trick. Most of the time I can remove it by hand.

Well, I pressure washed it and took a (horrible) video, but I sure do not see any gaps:

 

[Nige]

Well, I pressure washed it and took a (horrible) video, but I sure do not see any gaps:

Time to break out the gas axe and get some serious heat on the mounting in that case.

 

[Baxsie]

Still waiting on the rollers (Friday) and then bearable weather.

Meanwhile I got the Grease Valve ( CAT 154-2237 ) for the track tensioner. Here are photos showing the one I took out next to the real CAT part:






Differences I see:

1) Single piece construction (no separate grease fitting). Since no tiny ball is visible, I assume there is a larger, better, more robust ball deeper in the valve. Based on my experience with grease fittings, this has to be an improved solution.

2) Smaller hex.

3) Flat zinc plating instead of the shiny chrome.

4) Wider grease release path through the lower threads.

I have the M15x1.5 tap (now) to chase the threads in the cylinder.

 

[jbernielh]

if your using the OEM cat grease fitting get a zerk cap to put over the end.. I've had to replace a couple of them as dirt gets in the opening and it plugs..

 

[Baxsie]

if your using the OEM cat grease fitting get a zerk cap to put over the end.. I've had to replace a couple of them as dirt gets in the opening and it plugs..

Good thinking. I do have some caps. I also need to drill out the broken off bolts and fabricate new covers.

I'm not sure if my list is getting shorter or longer

 

[HarleyHappy]

That’s the nature of owning equipment. The more familiar you become with the machine, the longer the list becomes.
Imagine owning and operating a 40 year old machine.
The list can be a bit overwhelming.

 

[skyking1]

more complete.

 

[Baxsie]

Time to break out the gas axe and get some serious heat on the mounting in that case.

As you wish:



First, I used the torch to cut off the pin near the mount. Then I used the torch to burn right down the center of the stub of the pin that was stuck in the upright. This allowed me to put a lot of heat into the pin with only a small amount of heat on the upright. It did not even burn the paint off. Then I got the air chisel behind the pin and drove it out towards me.

Here are the new top rollers I got from Propel Parts:



These are ITR parts. Installation was uneventful -- clean out the hole, buff the paint off the shaft, install the set screw:

 

[Baxsie]

eBAy CAT305.5E2 Bottom Rollers. For something that is destined to roll over rocks for its life, the rollers came in packaging fit for a Fabergé egg. Bubble wrap, foam in place, steel reinforced wooden box, all inside a cardboard box:



To the packaging's credit, the rollers look pristine. They rollers seem to be constructed OK, there is a weld right down the center:



The number "0554-10032B-1060" shows up exactly no where on the interweb.

Installation was uneventful, except that the holes are not as deep as the original rollers, so I had to trim ~1/2" off each bolt.

Speaking of bolts, @Nige, how do you look up the torque for these? Is that a resource I can access or do you have some special access? In any case, can you let me know the correct torque for the roller bolts?

Thanks.

 

[Baxsie]

. . . I got the Grease Valve ( CAT 154-2237 ) for the track tensioner. . . .

This is one of the weirdest things I have come across.

The threads on the old grease valve were obviously bunged up.

Before I put the new valve into the likely bunged up hole in the cylinder, I got a 15mmx1.5mm tap to run down the hole. The tap practically fell into the hole for the first 1/4" to 1/2". Carefully got the threads engaged and ran the tap down the hole. It finally got tight near the bottom but never really cut.

Here is where it gets odd. The new grease valve really did not want to start in the cylinder holes. So I thought I would run the die over the new grease valve. Could not get it started. It is like the hole in the cylinder is smaller than the threads on the new grease valve. Struggle.

I got the valve started and it immediately got tight. I ended up driving the new valve down like it was a tap. Grease it well, advance a 1/4 or 1/2 turn cringing at the thought of breaking the valve off in the cylinder. Run it all the way our every couple of turns, clean it, more grease and then back in the hole.

Very odd. Finally it bottomed out and I could see the witness mark on the seat, so I think it will work OK.

The threads on the new valve look a bit worn but much better than the original valve's mess.

It got late so I had to take a break. Tomorrow I'll try to reassemble the cylinder and piston with new seals.

Can I test the hydraulic tensioner in my dumb HFT press? What kind of force should it be able to withstand? I think my press is supposed to be 20 ton. What if I took it to bypass:

40mm = 1.575" diameter​

Area = pi*(d/2)^2 = 1.948 sq-in​

20 tons = 40,000 lbs​

40,000 lbs / 1.948 sq-in gives a grease pressure of 20,536 PSI​

That seems like a lot. Google thinks the Dewalt grease gun can do 10,000 lbs and this would be 2x. So maybe I'll just give it a gentle press to make sure the new seals and grease valve do not leak.

With any luck I can get the undercarriage reassembled and ready for tracks by tomorrow.

 

[Nige]

Speaking of bolts, @Nige, how do you look up the torque for these? Is that a resource I can access or do you have some special access? In any case, can you let me know the correct torque for the roller bolts?

See attached. I think it has all the info you need.

 

[materthegreater]

As you wish:

View attachment 350661

First, I used the torch to cut off the pin near the mount. Then I used the torch to burn right down the center of the stub of the pin that was stuck in the upright. This allowed me to put a lot of heat into the pin with only a small amount of heat on the upright. It did not even burn the paint off. Then I got the air chisel behind the pin and drove it out towards me.

Here are the new top rollers I got from Propel Parts:

View attachment 350662

These are ITR parts. Installation was uneventful -- clean out the hole, buff the paint off the shaft, install the set screw:

View attachment 350663

Keep the old ones so you have spares when the new ITR parts fail in a few hundred hours...

 

[Nige]

Keep the old ones so you have spares when the new ITR parts fail in a few hundred hours...

And also keep in mind that the more you walk it the faster the undercarriage will wear. Try to plan your work so that it involves the least amount of travelling that is practicable.

 

[Baxsie]

See attached. I think it has all the info you need.

Thanks.

"Loctite all the things." -CAT Service Documentation (probably)

 

[Baxsie]

Keep the old ones so you have spares when the new ITR parts fail in a few hundred hours...

I get that using real CAT parts might be better, but keep in mind a) this is a used Chinese CAT and b) new, functioning Chinese parts are still better than worn out CAT parts (which very likely were made in China also):

and c) money. It is always about the money with humans:

CAT quote for the 2x + 10x "real" CAT rollers: $3445.52​

My budget for tracks and rollers: $0.00

Here is a recap of what has turned into a DIY rebuild of my CAT305.5E2 undercarriage.

10x Lower rollers (eBay, Chinese): $1281.80​

2x Upper rollers (Propel Parts, ITR): $286.12​

Total for rollers as purchased: $1567.92​

​

2x tracks, McLaren $3,529.00​

2x sprockets, TractorZone ITR $495.49​

Total for tracks and sprockets: $4,024.49​

Total purchased so far for tracks, sprockets and rollers: $5,592.41

Other misc parts:

locally sourced 40mm polished, chrome rod to replace piston: $43​

real CAT seals for the cylinder: $33​

real CAT grease valve: $36​

bolts and washers for idler ~$15​

buckets of my time: $0​

Total for tensioner parts: ~ $127​

(all prices quoted above include shipping, tax, etc)

Thanks for all the support and information from HEF. You folks are great.

 

[materthegreater]

I get that using real CAT parts might be better, but keep in mind a) this is a used Chinese CAT and b) new, functioning Chinese parts are still better than worn out CAT parts (which very likely were made in China also):

and c) money. It is always about the money with humans:

CAT quote for the 2x + 10x "real" CAT rollers: $3445.52​

My budget for tracks and rollers: $0.00

Here is a recap of what has turned into a DIY rebuild of my CAT305.5E2 undercarriage.

10x Lower rollers (eBay, Chinese): $1281.80​

2x Upper rollers (Propel Parts, ITR): $286.12​

Total for rollers as purchased: $1567.92​

​

2x tracks, McLaren $3,529.00​

2x sprockets, TractorZone ITR $495.49​

Total for tracks and sprockets: $4,024.49​

Total purchased so far for tracks, sprockets and rollers: $5,592.41

Other misc parts:

locally sourced 40mm polished, chrome rod to replace piston: $43​

real CAT seals for the cylinder: $33​

real CAT grease valve: $36​

bolts and washers for idler ~$15​

buckets of my time: $0​

Total for tensioner parts: ~ $127​

(all prices quoted above include shipping, tax, etc)

Thanks for all the support and information from HEF. You folks are great.

I'm sorry if that comment came across as critical. It's your machine, your money and your decisions. I have been following and am impressed with what you've done to this machine. You are doing a great job.

My experience with ITR parts has not been good. They were the only parts available when I needed them (during COVID shortages) so that's what I bought. The track chains had noticeable slop in them after only 100 hours. Now with 1300 hours on them they are worse than the ones they replaced which had a minimum of 2500 hours, perhaps as much as 5000 (I'm not sure of the history of the machine before I bought it). The new carrier rollers had sticky seals or something from the day they were installed and have never turned properly. Now they are stuck as if they were trying to spin on a rubber bearing. The replacement bottom rolls have been ok, but the metal has worn much quicker than the originals. My 2¢

 

[Tones]

And also keep in mind that the more you walk it the faster the undercarriage will wear. Try to plan your work so that it involves the least amount of travelling that is practicable.

And travel with the idler to the front. Also if the chains become packed with dirt slacken the chains off a little. It not only saves them wearing but also the idler bushing and planetary hub bearings.