Newby with CAT 305.5E2 (not CR) -- I think the tracks are toast. Do I need new sprockets?

[Baxsie]

Hello from Eastern Washington. First time mini excavator owner.

I just got delivery on a used CAT 305.5E2 (not the CR).



2018 model 1600 hours, steel tracks.

I got all new filters, engine oil, final drive oil, bucket teeth, bucket side cutters, engine oil, and final drive oil, 4x oil analysis (engine, hydraulic, 2x Final drive), and a operator's manual (~$1300 at local CAT dealer).

 

[Baxsie]

It makes a thunking noise going forward. At first thought it was a rock or gravel stuck in the tracks, but then I realized that it is rhythmic. It does not make the same noise in reverse.

I took a look at the tracks, and I think they are toast:







My question is whether the sprockets need to be changed:







So my questions are:

1) Do the sprockets need to be changed with new tracks?

2) I have a quote for new steel tracks from McLaren: $3529 shipped ~ 1 week. Has anyone used McLaren for replacement tracks?

Thanks in advance for any advice, information or noob ridicule you can offer.

 

[Nige]

I took a look at the tracks, and I think they are toast:

You're correct. The bushings have collapsed.
It would be advisable to install new sprockets if new tracks were being installed.

Before you go buying from McClaren or anywhere else please post a machine Serial Number. That way you can ask any supplier to furnish you with their equivalent to Cat Part Number "X" for the track Groups and Part Number "Y" for the sprockets. Your machine S/N probably starts with either WE2 or CR5 followed by 5 numbers.

 

[Baxsie]

Thanks for your reply. As soon as I get samples for the final drives I'm headed back into the Cat dealer to see what they've got. Here is my full identifier.

CAT3055ETWE205356

So the serial number should be:

WE205356

 

[Nige]

So the serial number should be: WE205356

So the factory-fit tracks are Part Number 333-5631 - 400mm/16" steel triple grouser. See the attachment. Illustration of sprocket also attached.

If the shoes are good you could always buy a replacement 333-5632 Link Group and swap your track shoes from the old to the new. That method may prove more economical although you will have to invest a fair amount of labour into it.

 

[Baxsie]

Thanks for your reply.

To be clear, you don't think aftermarket tracks are a valid solution?

 

[Nige]

To be clear, you don't think aftermarket tracks are a valid solution?

I did not say that. Aftermarket is always a potential solution. Whether it is the best or the most cost-effective solution only you can decide once you have all the relevant information. OEM prices should be only a phone call away.

Go back and read the part of my post - "That way you can ask any supplier to furnish you with their equivalent to Cat Part Number 333-5631 for the Track Groups and Part Number 333-5622 for the sprockets." Now that you have the OEM Part Numbers you can request any aftermarket supplier to quote you for their equivalent to the aforementioned numbers and also get confirmation in writing of that (in case parts don't fit). So you can compare apples with apples and hopefully not receive parts that won't fit if you do decide go aftermarket.

I would still advise that you investigate the cost/benefit of re-using your old track shoes, if they are in good condition, versus buying complete new tracks. You may have to factor in some new track shoe bolts & nuts because you'll probably end up damaging a few.

 

[Tones]

You'll notice the wear on those sprockets is uneven between the teeth, 1 side is worn but the other side is near new. A simple inexpensive fix is to swap the sprockets and chains from side to side and run them to 100% destruction .

 

[Nige]

Swapping sprockets side to side might work but I would say the chains are already too far gone.

 

[KSSS]

The prior owner must have had the one side super tight. Wearing out steel tracks in 1800 hours had to have some poor maintenance involved. I have bought rubber tracks and solid SSL tires from McLaren. One of the tires was wearing prematurely. Like grossly not manufactured correctly. They eventually replaced it after some arm twisting on my part. That was years ago. The rubber tracks I bought last year for a CTL. No complaints, quality was good. If the price of McLaren is close to OEM, I would go OEM, but I think think overall their product compared to other nonOEM options is better than most.

 

[Baxsie]

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is an update on the non-track stuff related to this excavator.

I am afraid this was a very poor purchase on my part. I am really paying dues at the school of ignorance.

The previous owner said they would do maintenance, but I took some money off instead. At least that way I would be sure of the work done and the parts used.

Here is what I have found:

* Engine oil was black. I have an old diesel tractor so I know it gets dark, but this was BLACK. Sample sent in for analysis.

* Final Drive oil was midnight black and stinky as F. 2 of the 4 plugs were stuck, one had the hex stripped out. Samples sent in for analysis. I filled with diesel, swished it around a bit, drained, put in a quart of new oil, swished that around a bit. That is draining overnight and then I'll fill with new oil. No silver sparkle flakes, so there is that.

* Fuel filter / water separator was really stuck in the housing. After giving up on getting the old filter out, I ordered a new housing for $200. Then--since I had nothing to lose--I took the old housing in to the vice, cut the filter out, and after much careful hammering, I finally got them separated:



Cleaned out all the rust, decided all the critical seals were OK (they are part of the filter), put it back together, flushed it good and hooked it all up. So a lot of labor, but at least I can cancel that $200 housing.

* Air cleaner had _no_ inner filter The outer filter was expectedly very dirty. Replaced both.

* Looked at having the coolant analyzed, but it was the same cost to drain and refill so that is on the schedule.

* I have new cabin filters, replacing them is on the list.

* Have new teeth installed, new side cutters on the way.

* Replaced the hydraulic filter cartridge. The horizontal glue stripes that go around the filter had all come off and were at the bottom of the housing ?!? On the plus side there were no particles in the filter and no sparklies in the oil or on the filter element.

*The rig is cosmetically in pretty good shape and has a decent-ish paint job. The stickers that basically say "hydraulic oil here and "diesel here" were swapped:



I tried to get new stickers and that is when the CAT parts guy informed me that it is a "grey iron", since the stickers are not in english. Sigh.

All this deferred maintenance is disturbing, and I am now thinking that the last service that was done on this machine was done on the other side of an ocean. Well, I have all the maintenance under control and although not pleasantly surprised, I guess I kind of accept that this might happen purchasing from a private party. It makes an ex-rental that has been regularly serviced look quite attractive, in hind sight.

 

[Baxsie]

OK, back to the SPROCKET and TRACK issue.

@Nige: Sorry for mis-reading your post. Thank you for helping find the part numbers.

One option is to just leave it alone and put up with the noise and jerkiness knowing that the sprockets and tracks are chewing themselves into oblivion. I don't think I can stomach that.

To do it right, it looks line the It looks like I need both sprockets and tracks, possibly reusing the treads.

The CAT SIS2GO app shows I need 2x of 333-5622 sprocket (agrees with @Nige) -- provided I re-use the bolts and washers (Is re-using the bolts allowed? I assume they are not TTY).

Getting the sprockets from CAT looks like ~$400 each.

I have the quote from McLaren for $3529. So is ~$4500 reasonable for replacement tracks and sprockets?

The CAT SIS2GO app, under the "333-5631" track group lists "LINK AS-TRACK" for $1900 - so I would be at $3800 right away and would still need to move over all 76 shoes and 304 bolts. Eeek.

I am going to search some more for sprockets and see if I can find something likely.

I also found out that there is a local business "Trackman" and I have contacted them to see what they can come up with.

Any other suggestions on where to source tracks and especially sprockets?

Another question: How does the final drive hub and sprocket assembly go together? From @Nige's, PDF:



It looks like I just take off the 12 pieces of bolts and washers and the sprocket is free?

Looking at mine, I can believe that, but I want some reassurance that the final drive will not fall apart in my hands when I remove those 12 bolts !



Looking at the final drive drawing, it appears that the 12 bolts can be removed without opening up the final drive. I guess that makes sense -- the sprocket is a wear item and should be easy to remove.




And, again, thanks for your advice and ideas. I really appreciate the support as this project drives me into the ground.

 

[Baxsie]

Some sprocket links that claim stock:

https://tractorzone.com/333-5622-tz1-sprocket/ 2x $160.72 + $175 shipping, total is : $495.49

Good old fleBay: 2x $299 + $75 shipping -$30 discount _ tax = $727.94

So if I do McLaren for tracks at $3529 and TractorZone for sprockets that is $4025 all in for new tracks and sprockets.

Is that a good price?

I also have a quote in with Viqan. They are kind of local so I could possibly drive to pick them up.

 

[Tones]

Yep just remove those bolts. The sprocket will be an interference fit but a pry bar should loosen them. The planetary hub is held together internally. Before you fit the new sprockets remove the paint off the mated surfaces, stops them coming loose.

 

[Nige]

A couple of thoughts.

1. If you do not have an Operation & Maintenance Manual yet you sould get hold of one ASAP. The Cat Publication reference for it is SEBU9304. Easiest way is to download a pdf version from the Cat Pubs web site. I don't see anything on any of the usual internet marketplaces.

2. You would have been better advised to do all the oil flushes/changes in every compartment then take oil samples from all of them the next time the engine oil was changed.

3. On those final drives that contain such a small quantity of oil (1.3 litres each side) you should ideally change it every time you change the engine oil, not every 1000 hours as per the manual recommendations. The oil used should be a full synthetic GL-5 85W/90 - accept no substitutes.

4. See attached for some Part Numbers of films/decals for the tanks (and others) that may be useful to you. I reckon the 242-1510 would be perfect for the hydraulic tank.



As an aside take a look at the machine data plate on the RH side close to the base of the boom. In the bottom RH corner will be the country of manufacture. Japan or China.?

 

[KSSS]

Out of all of this, the part that would scare me the most would be no inner air filter (who does that?) and the primary being full of dirt. Combine that with what we could likely assume would be lack of proper oil change schedule. Pretty evident that in the machines 1800 hours of life, very little maintenance had been done. Hopefully the engine hasn't been dusted, but certainly it has been breathing dirt. Maybe its worth compression testing it, if its low on compression, fix the tracks as cheap as possible and get out of it now.

 

[Nige]

You’ll need to cross your fingers and hope that the media in the outer filter was intact and there were no splits in it. Try putting a light inside it and inspect from the outside for any defects. If there are none you might just have got away with it. I would also suggest that you resample the new engine oil at 50 hours for confirmation. The silicon content is the key.

EDIT: Bear in mind that the only function of the secondary is as a “safety” element just in case the primary element fails and lets dust through, or in cases where the primary element has been removed for maintenance. In the course of normal operation it does nothing to prevent dust getting into the engine.

 

[Vetech63]

That hasn't been serviced right since it was new. YIKES!!!!!!!

 

[Baxsie]

As always, big thanks for your comments and insight. I'm learning . . . learning what a Bad Decision™ this was.

On the bright side, the hydraulics seem solid

Yep just remove those bolts. The sprocket will be an interference fit but a pry bar should loosen them. The planetary hub is held together internally. Before you fit the new sprockets remove the paint off the mated surfaces, stops them coming loose.

OK, good to know. I can feel future Baxsie squirming about that "interference fit" already . . . .

. . . 1. If you do not have an Operation & Maintenance Manual . . .

Paper one ordered from CAT.

. . . 2. You would have been better advised to do all the oil flushes/changes in every compartment then take oil samples from all of them the next time the engine oil was changed. . . .

I can see that. I got this machine primarily for a single project, carefully picking through a farm dump that is on top of a spring. I need to sort concrete from wood from tires from steel from trash. I want to save the spring and possibly rejuvenate it if possible. My plan was to own this machine for 6 to 18 months, avoiding ~ 6x2500 = 15K rent to

I doubt if I'll put more than 100 hours on it.

. . . 3. On those final drives that contain such a small quantity of oil (1.3 litres each side) you should ideally change it every time you change the engine oil, not every 1000 hours as per the manual recommendations. The oil used should be a full synthetic GL-5 85W/90 - accept no substitutes.

I agree on the reduced interval. The CAT dealer gave me 75-140 full synthetic -- $15/quart was as cheap as NAPA so I went with the CAT brand.

4. See attached for some Part Numbers of films/decals for the tanks (and others) that may be useful to you. I reckon the 242-1510 would be perfect for the hydraulic tank.

Awesome, Thanks.

As an aside take a look at the machine data plate on the RH side close to the base of the boom. In the bottom RH corner will be the country of manufacture. Japan or China.?

China:

That hasn't been serviced right since it was new. YIKES!!!!!!!

I know ! Right ? Still kicking myself.

 

[Nige]

Paper one ordered from CAT.

Out of interest how much is it costing you.?

China:

That doesn't make it a grey import in my book because all the parts/service information for your Serial Number appears in the online system. Lots of Cat excavators these days are assembled in China and shipped worldwide for sale. The only thing that the decals/films suggest is that the US was not the original intended market for this particular machine.

True grey market machines were built in Japan for the Japanese home market only and were never intended for export. They are "slightly different" from machines built during the same time frame for the "World" market. Over the years some of them did find their way elsewhere and when customers go to a Cat dealer the look they get from the Parts Counter when they give the machine Serial Number is similar to what they might get if they suddenly had grown a 2nd head......

You would have been better advised to do all the oil flushes/changes in every compartment then take oil samples from all of them the next time the engine oil was changed.

I doubt if I'll put more than 100 hours on it.

TBH based on your comments regarding the colour of the engine oil when it was drained I would suggest that you run the new oil no more than 50 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first, and then change both oil and filter again. Sample the oil again at that time. The results should either give you peace of mind or a heart attack.