"New guy", could really use some input and advise on buying my first dozer!

[JDDozerman]

Hello, I'm getting ready to purchase my first "dozer" (although I have operated some, just never "owned" one), and I could really use some advise, and input, if anyone cares to give it! I prefer hydraulic rather than cable dozers, I'm hoping to stay in the $12 to $20,000.00 price range, and nothing smaller than a D5 or D6 (or comparable). I have looked at a 71 IH TD 15B, and 68 TD 20B (both seem in really good shape with 80% or better undercarriages and both run and operate good for their age), a larger 1980 IH TD 25C, "older" Case 750's, or 850's, Cat D6 or D7 D's and E's(I know some of the older ones were under powered), a 74 Fiat Allis 11B (I really liked this one, and it seems to be in great condition!), and others of the same comparable size. I'm HOPING to find one with a ripper on back, but they seem to be kind of scarce, in my price range. I would love to hear some input on what you all think of the Komatsu dozers! Also, I could really use some input on which type of transmissions (i.e. torque converter type, wet vs dry clutch, or ?), and steering "systems" (lever vs. foot pedal), are best, and what to stay away from, or watch out for. What about these ones that have a "decelerator"? I read some negative things about them, so any input would be greatly appreciated. The 68 IH TD 20B has this "decelerator", that's why I'm asking. Basically, any info regarding what is best to look for, what to avoid, etc. would really be appreciated, and I'm disabled, so I'm probably better off going with "lever steering", since my legs were crushed, and I have limited use of them. I guess I should add, I'm needing it to do some serious land clearing on my farm, such as removing Locust and cedar trees, doing some land leveling, and to build some smaller ponds (1/2 to 3 acres at most). The soil on my farm, here in north central Missouri, is not really bad as far as rocks go, even though I'm in a "hilly" area, but it does have some pretty hard clay in areas. Thank you in advance for your time, consideration, and kindness in helping me out! Sorry for the lengthy post, I was TRYING to keep it short, but failed miserably!ops

Thank you,
JDDozerman :Cowboy

 

[JMJ_D31]

I was in the same boat your in a few months ago buying my first Dozer. It took me seven months to find what I wanted in my price range. I ended up buying a 1985 Kamatsu D31. Hang in there you will find what your looking for.

 

[monkey]

I also bought a used D31 Komotsu probably 12 yrs ago, other than finally redoing the undercarriage, the thing is bullet proof.

Probably way to small for what you are looking for. For the price range you are looking at though, it's going to be tough to find something big that isn't going to need quite a bit of work on it to be reliable

 

[JDDozerman]

I know what you mean, I do have several in mind that I have been looking at, I was just hoping to get some "expertise" regarding what to look for, and what to avoid, and maybe what the best makes and models, in the size, and price range, I'm looking for, would be. For instance I know some of the older Cats were pretty underpowered compared to their competitors at that time (I think early 60's and older, if I remember correctly?). I also was hoping to get an idea of which type of transmissions hold up the best, as well as what type of steering system, etc.. I know each make and model can all have their "quirks", or shortcomings, I am just hoping to narrow the field as to what years, makes, and models, would be the "best bang for my buck"! Thanks for the reply, I will find something, I just want to try and get the best one I can for my money.

 

[wrwtexan]

I have a TD 20B which is a good machine but hard to get parts for. For your handicap, the steering controls would work well if it is in good working order as the operator pulls back part way the power assisted hand lever to release the steering "clutch" for drift steer and then all the way to release the clutch and apply brake for hard turns. The brake discs have to still be in good shape for everything to be adjusted together. I had to repack my left brake and if I had to get new parts, they were $50 apiece for 10 separators and $80 each for 8 lined discs. Luckily found some good used discs and had a friend laser cut new separators.
This machine is 165 HP and is a good performer. The engine is a DT 429 and only used in the crawlers and one oddball tractor.
On a powershift machine, the decelerator is a must. As the benefits of a powershift is quick forward to reverse shifting, it idles down the engine before engaging clutches for the opposite direction. Saves a lot of wear and shock on the transmission and clutches. Wouldn't hurt to have them on standard transmissions.

 

[Seabass]

Hey there JDDozerman,

You brought up a fair amount of questions and I look forward to what answers will come up. I think a couple questions you have to ask yourself is what dealers are nearby that will be helpful in terms of parts. Also, I don't know how big your trees are so that may determine in size of your future Cat. You will have to evaluate your own time as it translates to money, so a smaller machine will get the job done if time is no factor but if not a bigger (more expensive machine) may be required.
Something to consider is a Hydro-static machine if you have limited mobility in your legs, (simple joystick controls) would be easier on you compared to foot brakes, and a decelerator.

Good luck.

 

[monkey]

I didn't read all through your post, sorry

you might try looking for a smaller/newer machine. I say that because you could probably find something in a little better shape for the money

I use my D31 strictly on my farm, for just what you described and it works fine. I would think something along a D4 would be plenty for what you need it for.....just my opinion though.

And yeah, you'll definitely want hydrostat for the way you need to operate it

 

[JDDozerman]

I sure appreciate all the wonderful insight, input, and knowledge you all are sharing with me. I do feel like I'm in a bit of a "between a rock and a hard place" type situation here, because of my limited funds as well as my limited leg use (that's what happens when you get your legs crushed!, DON'T try this at home!). I have found MANY machines in my price range, and size, however, I'm trying look at ALL aspects, and make the wisest choice possible! Does anyone have any input regarding Case 1150B's, I have found 3 that all seem to be in good working order, and around $12,000.00 (I'm not sure if that's a good price or not?), are they a good machine? The other thing I'm wondering is, would it be better to get a smaller dozer PLUS a crawler loader, in other words, get a little smaller size, spend less for each, and use them both to get the job done, would that be a good way to go for building ponds? That's really my biggest task, I know I can get the trees removed, even with a smaller dozer, but the pond building is what I'm most concerned with, getting something that will do that the best (under my restrictions). I farm full-time, so I'm not concerned with how fast it gets done, more so, just doing it right! I have quite a bit of experience operating heavy equipment (at least to the size of a D8), and have built ponds before with other peoples equipment, and BEFORE I became disabled. So now I just have to adjust to buying the equipment myself, with limited funds, as well as getting equipment I can operate without a lot of problems because of my loss of leg power. I will keep researching, "brainstorming", and listening to what you all have to say, and thanks again for all your input and kindness! GREAT people here!

 

[RDG]

I would think a case in your situation would be the least attractive, they have four pedals on the floor and a tower with 5 levers on it up between your legs, just about need to be an octopus to handle them. IH would be the easiest as they were the first to bring out hands only steering in the 15 20 & 25 so only two pedals on the floor where as cat and most of the others had three or more, hydrostatic is probably the simplest, one lever usually does it all on them.Cheers RDG.

 

[monkey]

what type of ponds are you planning on? What is their intended use?

Basically a flat piece of land and you need to remove a lot of the dirt or a natural depression/draw and will be damming it up and just basically removing trees and cleaning the area out ? If you are just damming up a natural basin, are you trucking in the dirt or planning to try and use what you already have?

trying to get an idea on how much material you are wanting to move

 

[JDDozerman]

Thanks for the input on the Case, RDG, I realize they have 4 pedals, but I wasn't sure if they had pedal steering, if they aren't it still might work ok for me. I thought WITH all those hand levers that maybe they were a "lever steer"? The ones I'm looking at are 1977-85 Case 1150's, if anyone has more info on them, are they good machines, I'd love to hear about it?!

Hey Monkey, I have SEVERAL, small to large size, tree filled draws on my farm that I both want/need to dam up, for both flood control, erosion, and a couple of the smaller ones I would be using for watering cattle. So ALL of them will be using what I already have, as far as dirt, and clay. I guess you could safely say I will be moving a LOT of "soil" around, for sure!PLUS having a LOT of trees, of various sizes, to knock down!
Each day I find more and more dozers in my price range, and that seem in remarkable good shape, considering most of them are from the 70's, and early 80's. I just want to find one that has lever steering, is the most durable, easy to find parts for, and HOPEFULLY has a ripper on back for all the clay! Today I found a couple Deere 750's, are they any good? I can't find much in the Komatsu line but I also know the least about them, so maybe that's just as well. I sure appreciate all the help here, keep it coming if you would, I can sure use it, and I'm taking "note" of EVERYTHING you all say! Have a great day tomorrow, and you're a great bunch of people, thank you kindly!
JDDozerman

 

[alrman]

Re Case 1150B's - they are supposed to be driven/steered using levers. 2 left pedals (L&R brake) push spools in on a control valve, so you could say they are "power assist" - not much leg strength required.
The third pedal in from left, is a mechanical cable brake (emergency), hard on the legs - but, it is also connected to the park brake lever, so the pushing on pedal with foot can be assisted by pulling the hand brake lever at same time.
I remember reading an article, some years back, of a guy who was a double amputee (both legs) & used to drive an 1150. He used to park his ute right next to the dozer & somehow, climb all over the machine to check oils etc , get up into the seat & operate like any other operator.
1150's can counter rotate as well - not many, if any, powershift dozers of that era can do that.

 

[RDG]

They can be hand steered but to do a pivot turn u still need to apply the foot brake to apply the brake to brake the required side to stop the track plus they have an accelerator pedal not a decelerator and after 10hrs of holding the pedal down the old leg really feels like its done a days work, decelerator any day u only use it to change direction or in tight quarter manourvering. A Case would be the last on my shopping list but thats just me, as for counter rotation JD 750/850 had it as well as EUC/TEREX TC12 / 82-80 and Komatsu D 455 were some that also had it. Cheers RDG.

 

[ILLICEMAN]

Try a D6 c they are bullet prof.So are the d6d.

 

[JDDozerman]

Thanks guys, ALL this information is VERY useful, and appreciated VERY much! I can see RDG's point about the "accelerator", but unless it's really tight (similar to a heavy duty clutch), I don't know that it would be too bad. I've been a drummer for over 35 yrs. and still can play. My main problem is my legs are a lot weaker since being crushed. When trying to walk they will just give out on me, and I hit the ground! They aren't as bad when sitting and just using them on pedals, EXCEPT, when the pedals are strong. I had a IH 1066 tractor I had to sell because it had a heavy duty clutch, and it was all I could do to try and push it in!!! Thank you alrman for the input on the Case 1150's, I do think I will keep them in mind, at least as an option! I have had people tell me I was "CRAZY" for continuing to farm after getting my legs and lower back crushed, but WHY should I quit if I can still figure out ways to do it?!! I love farming, and I would be MISERABLE doing anything else, and if a double amputee can do it, I sure as heck can!!! Hello ILLICEMAN, I have a lake house down by you, between Laurie and Gravois Mills! Anyhow, I'm keeping the D6 and D7 options open, I just haven't found a decent one anywhere close to me, and in my price range. I DID find a Fiat Allis 14C today, it's close to me pretty nice condition, U.C. is 85%, runs and operates good, does tend to over heat on "hot days" (may just be a thermostat), he's asking $12,000.00 for it! Anyone have any experience with these? I hear they are VERY hard to get track parts for!?!? If anyone could give me some input on this model I would sure appreciate it! I'm trying to compare this Fiat Allis 14C to a IH TD 15B or 15C, can anyone give me the "specs" for the 2 of them? Thanks again everyone, for helping out a crippled farmer! I hope I can reciprocate your kindness someday! You all have a great day!

 

[monkey]

you start getting into the bigger ponds, that's a lot of distance to be pushing dirt around with just a dozer. Dirt is funny stuff, seems like you are moving alot of it, but it doesn't go very far (volume wise)
my little project pond I've been working on, right now I have moved probably at least 100 dump truck loads just for the dam so far, I'm guessing 150 more to finish it. Most of the clay/dirt I'm digging out is only 200' away from the dam. I just couldn't imagine trying to move it all with just a dozer. Well not mine
So yeah you may want to get as big a one as you can. Having a hoe and dump truck really does help me and makes my 31 more than adequate for what i need it for

 

[PCSHAY]

I was hoping somebody else would bring this up; Safety. I admire your self-sufficiency and determination but you may end up aggravating your condition (especially your hips). A dozer is a pretty unforgiving machine when it comes to comfort. Unless you're pushing beach sand you can get jolted around pretty good. You say there aren't many rocks, but if you bounce over one, or are trying to pry one out, it can get pretty hard on the body. You can get slammed by logs or even going over a berm.
The obvious question I hate to ask is; how will you get on and off the machine? Guys get hurt all the time slipping on tracks or losing balance. My dad hurt his hip jumping off a machine and it bothered him for 40 years. I'm not trying to discourage you, just give you some things to think about besides just the brand of machine. Maybe a custom seat (more padding) and lengthening the levers would help as well as extra grab-irons.

 

[JDDozerman]

Well, this is exactly why I started this thread! Because "multiple minds" (especially knowledgeable ones), are better than 1! You all are bringing up VERY valid points, and though I have some answers, I may not have them all. I totally agree with Monkey, regarding having multiple machines being a better way to go, however, I can at least get the smaller ponds, and some land clearing and leveling done for sure. I may just have to take my time on the larger ponds, or by that time I may be able to get a hoe, or track loader, to help out. I'm in the process of buying another farm up the road, and I just don't want to take out any other loans right now, because it could have ill effects on my financing. That's why I'm limited in price, to the cash I have on hand, to buy a dozer with, which is about $18,000.00 Also, PCSHAY has some good points on "safety", however, there too I have some things going for me, I work with a program called the "AgrAbility Project", which works with disabled farmers to help them keep farming. ONE of the things they do is to get adaptive equipment that allows, those of us with disabilities, to get on and off equipment in a safe manner (such as lifts, handles, and what have you), my "condition" is one that, my main concern is "falling down", once I'm in the seat I'm fine, and if it gets rough that's ok, I have been over some VERY rough ground with my Oliver 1850 diesel loader tractor, and it has not hindered my condition at all, I may be a little sore at times, but I have R.S.D. (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy) which is a disease that for ONE thing, makes your nerves fire "pain signals" ALL the time, so I'm NEVER "out of pain" anyway! When the pain gets too much I just take a break for a bit. It won't make my condition any worse though, and that's the main thing! I know I may be stubborn, but I try to draw the line at "being stupid", and since I'm all ready "buggered up", the LAST thing I want to do is get "buggered up" even MORE! So I do take things slow and easy! As I said in my O.P., I have operated dozers, hoes, graders, and other machinery, so I do have a "base of knowledge" to work with. Now I'm just doing my best to work around my disability's, and be smart about it! Anyhow, I know there will be some "hurdles", but getting a decent sized dozer, to start with, will sure get me on my way towards getting some of the things done around here. It's a start anyway! Thanks again for all the great input! I'm really liking the Fiat Allis 14C, if anyone has any "seat time" in one of these, or knows them at all, I would sure like to hear about them, good, bad, ?

 

[PCSHAY]

You might want to read this.

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=crawlers&th=93606

 

[JDDozerman]

Interesting you brought that up PCSHAY, that's the same exact thing I read that made me a bit concerned about the dozer! It appears that people have other "remedies" for the tracks, such as retro-fitting them with Cat segments, or something to that degree, however, I'm not sure how realistic a proposition that really is. The one I'm looking at is in excellent condition, and the undercarriage (including the chains, pads, grousers, sprockets, rollers, pins, idlers, etc.) is in excellent condition, at about 90%, so theoretically it should be quite some time before I needed to change anything! I'm basically down to choosing between 4 dozers, the 71 IH TD 15B for $12,900.00 in excellent condition, the Fiat Allis 14C for $12,000.00 also in excellent condition, or there is a guy in K.C., MO. that has an 80 IH TD25C (the oil cooler leaks on), and a Cat D7E (that has a "leak on top front of motor), that he is asking $12,000.00 each for. They both look VERY nice in the pics so it makes me wonder WHY he's selling them so cheap??!! There ARE some others I could also look at such as a Case 1150,1450,and 1550, as well as some other IH's, but I'm not finding much of anything in the "Cat" line that's anywhere close to me, or in my price range, which seems a bit odd, I guess they must be selling for quite a bit more than their competitors?!?! Anyway, that's about where I'm at, this is turning out to be harder than I had anticipated, as there is SO much to consider! That's life though! I sure appreciate ALL the help, kindness, and expertise, you all have been showing and giving me, and I GREATLY appreciate it!!!