Large frame, high HP, No DEF

[Dan Watrous]

Hi All, how many years back do I need to go to get a full sized CTL without DEF? For instance, was there a CAT 299 or a Kubota 97 without DEF.
This is for a mountain ranch property and will get low hours for the rest of it's life. I want to know what years for each major brand that I should reject until I have to make my peace with DEF.
On the other hand, since these machines are so darn compact, should i get one with DEF to get reliability in the other parts?
Thanks

 

[Tones]

One machine that would fit those requirements is the Posi Track RC100. It didn't have any electronics. The undercarriage was crap but could possibly be updated. Just saying.

 

[Dan Watrous]

The internet tells me CAT added DEF to the 299d2 in 2016, so my previous search wasn't worded right.

Tones, what I really want is a CAT (so I don't need another key to carry) 299d2 xps with steel tracks, and in the back I want a PTO and 3 point hitch with hydraulics everywhere on it for everything

 

[Dan Watrous]

So if I buy a 2015 CAT 299D XPH with a Tier 4 Interim 100 hp motor and no DEF, are there any emissions difficulties from being Tier 4 Interim?

 

[DDoug]

Tones, what I really want is a CAT (so I don't need another key to carry) 299d2 xps with steel tracks, and in the back I want a PTO and 3 point hitch with hydraulics everywhere on it for everything

??????

 

[Dan Watrous]

that is my blue skying.
I have lots of rear ended implements for our home farm tractor in the valley. Why leave CTLs with nothing to do in the back?
My tractor has a quick attach front for the bucket and other attachments where the idea was taken from skid steers. Why can't skid steers and CTLs have PTOs and 3 point hitches in back so dealers can sell more implements? I think Case or some brand put a backhoe on a CTL. Just dreamin

 

[Tones]

RC 100 used Cat keys,had a Cat fuel cap as well. A bloke here manufactured rippers for them and are available, so with a little bit of engineering 3 point implements could be used. Now for the PTO. This can be driven through the Hi Flow onto a hydraulic motor on the implements using a quick change so the same motor is used on all attachments.
A bloke in sth Australia fitted steel tracks onto his RC100,turned out to be cheaper than rubber tracks at that time.

 

[Dan Watrous]

Figured the PTO would have to be hydraulic so want hydraulic hook ups front and back
I wonder what the cost of shipping would be from "everywhere"

 

[AMBMike]

Maybe we've been lucky with our machines but I wouldn't worry about getting one that requires DEF. Unless you are lucky enough to find a gently used low hour machine that's over ten years old you may be getting a machine that needs a lot of repairs in other areas.
In my experience if you keep the DEF clean and fresh, run the machine at wide open throttle when working, don't do a lot of lugging, and not much idling you'll be fine. It seems to me that most of the DEF problems I hear about with the newer machines are less of a machine problem and more a lack of understanding the differences between the older pre emission equipment and the newer stuff but I'm not a mechanic fixing then either.
We've had zero DEF system issues with our Cat skid steers. Our Kubotas have all had DEF sensor failures at around 200-300 hours that were taken care of under warranty. The one Bobcat we have has had problems with almost everything but the DEF system at this point. It's under 300 hours though so there's still time...
YMMV

 

[rbrown225]

My Bobcat T770 2011 is a Tier 3 machine. I believe that is the last year before they went Tier 4I. No DEF,DPF or SCR. Do have EGR though.

 

[Shimmy1]

My Bobcat T770 2011 is a Tier 3 machine. I believe that is the last year before they went Tier 4I. No DEF,DPF or SCR. Do have EGR though.

I have a 2012 T770 that has zero emissions.

 

[KSSS]

I have had or do have 10 Case machines with DEF. I have yet to lose 1 hour due to DEF. Not to say some others running the same machines have had the same luck, just saying in my personal experience DEF has not been an issue. It is an inconvenience carrying DEF around, but mechanically it has not failed for me. Part of the key, I believe is to work them, when they are running harder, it seems to make a difference in durability of the DEF system. The issue that came up on the Tier 4i systems was the DPF failing. They also need to be run hard IE run so they get hot. I had 1 tier 4i, which ran well for me.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

that is my blue skying.
I have lots of rear ended implements for our home farm tractor in the valley. Why leave CTLs with nothing to do in the back?
My tractor has a quick attach front for the bucket and other attachments where the idea was taken from skid steers. Why can't skid steers and CTLs have PTOs and 3 point hitches in back so dealers can sell more implements? I think Case or some brand put a backhoe on a CTL. Just dreamin

Check out the first couple generations of ASV Posi-Track machines. They had a reversible operator station, and optional 3 point hitch/PTO setup. Unfortunately, enough time has passed that it's tough to find one that hasn't been beat to crap over the last 30 years.

As far as why no CTLs since then have offered rear implements, I'd say it's because you can't see anything that's back there when you're sitting in the operator seat. Even the early ASVs didn't truly have "rear" tooling, since rear and front were interchangeable due to the reversing operator station. The 3 point hitch and loader arms were on the same end of the machine... You faced "rear" when using the loader, then turned the seat around and faced "front" when using PTO implements.

And yeah, Cat and ASV have a relationship, so the ASV machines from the early 2000s use Cat ignition switches.

3 point hitch adapters are available for the skid loader quick attach as well.