komatsu d65E-6 transmission issue

[daveycrocket]

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum and am looking for any input on the transmissions of the late model d65. I purchased it about 3 years ago from my grandfather who had it under a barn for 15 years. He claimed it had zero issues but he's known to be a bit hard headed when it comes to equipment. I had to do some minor engine work, rebuilt the cylinders on the front and did a full oil service in every component as well as filters with SAE30 oil other then hydro as well as other parts along the way... When I first fire it up everything works as should, 1-2-3 forward and reverse all engage and operate properly. as it warms up 1st gear in both directions starts disengaging with minimal resistance against the blade, if I continue to use 1st gear it over heats the TC temp and stops pushing in 1st all together. Reverse seems to operate a little better then forward but is still mostly useless. At first it only did it when the temp gauge got close to the top end of operating range, it is now doing it at midway temp on The gauge. The odd thing I've noticed is if I pour water on the steering pump the temp gauge drops immediately and the transmission will catch a gear for a bit until it warms back up.. I'm hoping there is a pressure bypass/safety that could be stuck or inoperable but I'm beginning to believe I'ma have to pull the transmission. I've pulled the cooler apart and visually inspected it and saw zero issues, everything was free and clear of any obstructions and had no corrosion in it whatsoever so I reassembled it and called it good.

Preciate y'all's time and input.

 

[daveycrocket]

..

 

[daveycrocket]

Bump

 

[Simon C]

Have you checked all the suction line piping to the pumps along with the transmission filter.
You will eventually have to hook up gauges. Are the oil levels okay, in case a dipstick got changed.
I believe the bottom of the torque has a small charge pump and screen that is removable from outside.
What year is this unit as some are hard to get parts for.
Simon C

 

[daveycrocket]

What do you mean by checked? Like removed and done a flow test essentially? Cause I have not done that. I have visually inspected the machine very thoroughly. I had the floor board apart last year putting in new drive couplers and joints as they were wore out and leaking at the tran... I assume the transmission is at the correct level. When its shut down and cold it's about 3 inches inches past the cross hatching on the dipstick, when it is running it's around the top side of the cross hatching, still clean pristine looking fluid. It has maybe 75 hours on it sense the service last year. When I serviced it I removed the suction line between the trans and TC case you speak of and ran water threw it, the line was clear and I cleaned the screen very well.Both cases had debris in them from previous repairs on the bottom of the case, like RTV, old hard gasket paper, paint and dirt, I cleaned them up to my arm pits with rags and reassembled.When I filled it up I had a 55 gallon drum of new oil and measured the discharge rate from the pump to get a estimated amount of fluid into the trans by the book, it should of been close enough to count. It started leaking very badly at the drive line shortly there after. Can you point me to the direction of a gauge that will do the task? As for the year I'm not sure. It's serial number is 30835 but I haven't been to find a model year to relate to the serial number.

 

[Welder Dave]

Not sure if a D65E is the same but if so it's a 1977. Most of the D65E's listed from the late 70's and up are D65E-6 but a little book I have just lists D65E.

 

[daveycrocket]

I can line with a 77. Parts interchange between them doesn't seem to be a issue.. I've located several items thus far. If it's not perfect I just take it to a.machine shop or hit it with a grinder and send it.

 

[tctractors]

The D65E - 6 would be fitted with the Cummins NH220 motor, the steering pump and the transmission pump are to the left side of the engine back case as you sit, the oil level for the transmission is I feel not checked with a running engine, the steering case oil level being checked on the back wall of the main case by the F/Drive level plugs, under the floor plates are 2 high pressure filters with purge plugs on the lids that can be removed to pressure test the transmission and steering using the required fittings and 0 to 600 psi gauge's, there is also a suction filter in the transmission below the drive spider, also a suction filter for the steering with a 3 bolt fastening to the lid under your left foot as you sit, do your checks and print what you find.

 

[daveycrocket]

The D65E - 6 would be fitted with the Cummins NH220 motor, the steering pump and the transmission pump are to the left side of the engine back case as you sit, the oil level for the transmission is I feel not checked with a running engine, the steering case oil level being checked on the back wall of the main case by the F/Drive level plugs, under the floor plates are 2 high pressure filters with purge plugs on the lids that can be removed to pressure test the transmission and steering using the required fittings and 0 to 600 psi gauge's, there is also a suction filter in the transmission below the drive spider, also a suction filter for the steering with a 3 bolt fastening to the lid under your left foot as you sit, do your checks and print what you find.

Noted. The steering pump has been replaced sometime in the past. I wasn't aware of the screen on it I'll definitely check it out and see if it's covered in the same debris as the trans screen. I searched hard and long for transmission check procedure and never found anything so I filled it to where it was on the crosshatch operating to be safe that it was lubricated and not cavitating.

What type of gauge am I looking for?

Do you have a link possibly to one that comes with adapters o r am i eft to the miscellaneous brass fitting department of my local napa?

 

[daveycrocket]

Noted. The steering pump has been replaced sometime in the past. I wasn't aware of the screen on it I'll definitely check it out and see if it's covered in the same debris as the trans screen. I searched hard and long for transmission check procedure and never found anything so I filled it to where it was on the crosshatch operating to be safe that it was lubricated and not cavitating.

What type of gauge am I looking for?

Do you have a link possibly to one that comes with adapters o r am i eft to the miscellaneous brass fitting department of my local napa?

I may be mistaken, I went and looked back at it. The steering pump and trans pump appear to be the same unit on opposite sides of the TC case, correct? They may not have been replaced. I was assuming they had been cause the bolts are shiny zinc colored instead of yellow as the rest of the case and bolts appear to painted after assembly. Called around for hydro kit, no one has one stock in my area so I ordered one with various fittings. I'll check back on when I get my hands on it and check pressures,

Thank you for help

 

[Simon C]

What do you mean by checked? Like removed and done a flow test essentially? Cause I have not done that. I have visually inspected the machine very thoroughly. I had the floor board apart last year putting in new drive couplers and joints as they were wore out and leaking at the tran... I assume the transmission is at the correct level. When its shut down and cold it's about 3 inches inches past the cross hatching on the dipstick, when it is running it's around the top side of the cross hatching, still clean pristine looking fluid. It has maybe 75 hours on it sense the service last year. When I serviced it I removed the suction line between the trans and TC case you speak of and ran water threw it, the line was clear and I cleaned the screen very well.Both cases had debris in them from previous repairs on the bottom of the case, like RTV, old hard gasket paper, paint and dirt, I cleaned them up to my arm pits with rags and reassembled.When I filled it up I had a 55 gallon drum of new oil and measured the discharge rate from the pump to get a estimated amount of fluid into the trans by the book, it should of been close enough to count. It started leaking very badly at the drive line shortly there after. Can you point me to the direction of a gauge that will do the task? As for the year I'm not sure. It's serial number is 30835 but I haven't been to find a model year to relate to the serial number.

The suction lines often had rubber hoses with clamps in between or pipes with donuts under the clamps. They get hard with time and you may be sucking air instead of oil. That is what I meant by saying check the suction line piping. Gauges need to be hooked up to the test ports that tell charge pressure. Sorry I don't have a pictorial on where to hook up. Might be a picture in previous posts somewhere. TC tractors in Post #8 had some good suggestions.
Simon C

 

[daveycrocket]

The suction lines often had rubber hoses with clamps in between or pipes with donuts under the clamps. They get hard with time and you may be sucking air instead of oil. That is what I meant by saying check the suction line piping. Gauges need to be hooked up to the test ports that tell charge pressure. Sorry I don't have a pictorial on where to hook up. Might be a picture in previous posts somewhere. TC tractors in Post #8 had some good suggestions.
Simon C

I know exactly what your talking about now. I haven't disassemble any piping as of yet under the floor boards. I have ordered a pressure test kit and have also acquired a shop manual. Hopefully I'll some numbers in a few days to report back.


Thank ya sir!

 

[tctractors]

Best place to test is via the purge plugs in the top of the filter lids, with the engine shut off after 10 min's you are safe to remove the plug/s then fit you test kit to the hole, 0 to 600 psi gauge is what you need, then start the engine and be aware that under full engine speed the Tractor will drive through the Brakes when in low gear, you need to look at the drive shaft it will spin in Neutral and stop in gear.

 

[tctractors]

Explain the cleaned the screen comment, to do this on the Transmission you need to drain all the oil out and remove the plate below the drive shaft and pull out the mesh filter.

 

[daveycrocket]

Best place to test is via the purge plugs in the top of the filter lids, with the engine shut off after 10 min's you are safe to remove the plug/s then fit you test kit to the hole, 0 to 600 psi gauge is what you need, then start the engine and be aware that under full engine speed the Tractor will drive through the Brakes when in low gear, you need to look at the drive shaft it will spin in Neutral and stop in gear.

I appreciate the direction. Do I need to test it at full engine speed, in gear, pushing material? Am I attempting to stall the engine while testing clutch friction via load on the equipment? Ive been operating it with the left floor board removed and examining the driveshaft while hunting some small hydraulic leaks.I wonna say it spins all time over 30-40% throttle.. Whenever it stalls, the shaft is singing.

 

[daveycrocket]

Explain the cleaned the screen comment, to do this on the Transmission you need to drain all the oil out and remove the plate below the drive shaft and pull out the mesh filter.

I serviced the entire machine with a 55 gallon barrel of oil. I removed the service pan in the belly armour and took the cross pipe out between the two and cleaned the screen after I drained both units.

 

[daveycrocket]

Best place to test is via the purge plugs in the top of the filter lids, with the engine shut off after 10 min's you are safe to remove the plug/s then fit you test kit to the hole, 0 to 600 psi gauge is what you need, then start the engine and be aware that under full engine speed the Tractor will drive through the Brakes when in low gear, you need to look at the drive shaft it will spin in Neutral and stop in gear.

Mornin all, still waiting on the pressure gauge kit, but the show must go on. Got up this morning and gave the dozer a once over, checked the fluids, they're all still in there and clean.

I've attached a few photos of the dozers work load on my personal pond project here in North Alabama. (The stand pipe under the dam is 11' tall for size reference of the distance)


Fired it up and went to work clearing trees off a hill to harvest some red dirt under the topsoil to lift my dam another 2.5 feet. Stripped the trees off this 1/4 acre spot and rolled em all up into a pile to burn later, dozer doesn't struggle a bit other then flipping some large stumps that housed 5-6 young sweet gums from a logging cut years ago the stumps survived, as they do. I thought about what you said when I noticed the tracks slowing TC.

here's how it goes down, engine and equipment freshly warmed up, still on the low side of temp, 1st gear both directions is working wonderfully still. Find a big stump, put the blade against and it's chewing, when I apply up force to lift the stump prematurely of busting the branching roots, the greater traction of the force applied does stall the torque converter and the spider will stop, which all makes perfect sense to me and is exactly how I assume it should operate.
Reverse off it and work around the stump and I get it out. After rolling all organic material in a burn pile, I start stripping top soil.. the transmission decides it's time give 1st gear a break after about a Hour and a half of hard labor. At this point the spiders do not stall. When it first begins to happen I can engage both clutches and it'll let something engage, release them and it will travel and push a load, but not for long. Go to second gear, thankfully there gutsy old machines and it will do all i ask it to do in second gear just not as neatly and a little more uncomfortably. Spyders do stall while pushing less of a load in second, which I assume is normal cause of the lower numerical ratio of gearing. Shut down for a little brake and snapped these photos.

Enjoys y'all's weekend and thanks again.

 

[Simon C]

Just want you to know that I have worked quite a lot on D155A models that are newer than yours and lots of even seals are no longer available from Komatsu. Just a heads up for any future plans.
Some torque conveter parts non available, transmission parts the same. I did 1 torque for a D155A-1 and had to take a second junker apart to get one of the high temperature orange coloured flange seals as no other available.I might say a few more things but you will face the inevitable eventually.
Simon C

 

[Welder Dave]

Good to know if parts will be a problem if you keep it or it needs other than minor repairs.

 

[daveycrocket]

Just want you to know that I have worked quite a lot on D155A models that are newer than yours and lots of even seals are no longer available from Komatsu. Just a heads up for any future plans.
Some torque conveter parts non available, transmission parts the same. I did 1 torque for a D155A-1 and had to take a second junker apart to get one of the high temperature orange coloured flange seals as no other available.I might say a few more things but you will face the inevitable eventually.
Simon C

Yeah, old machines make it difficult to get parts for that is for sure. I have rebuilt all cylinders, all new filters, put trunnions and caps on the push arms and a roller under it, is has new idlers up front and I assume the tracks are about 60% or better. have found a company in Australia and had them ship me drive flanges for the transmission from there that were not available in the US as well as the seals.. they sent me one incorrectly but I had a machinist match it to the the old one I removed. I don't plan on getting rid of it. The motor is almost fresh. It's got about 200 hours on a oil change and it's still clean. Granted it sweats about a quart a day but that ain't enough for it stay clean.

There are two near me for a package deal I've considered getting the both of them but my wife would take the house if I did, but I do suppose I'd have 3 dozers.

It's a jam up machine, I just got a figure out what this superficial issue is with the 1st gear.im leaning towards the pickup screen is plugged up and causing the pump to get hot and cavitate, or a relief valve with a weak spring is opening at temp instead of pressure. I can literally pour a 20oz bottle of lukewarm water on the pump while in gear and it stallin and it'll kick into gear and go immediately. It will soon uncouple if you put a load on it tho.. it doesn't seem like a slip, seems like it's disengaging.

Preciate it.