Hydraulic filter

[Nitelite]

I used my D4E 27x for a few hours, two evenings in a row. The hydraulics started whining when the blade position was moved. I started operating with a full sight glass but when I shut it down and checked the fluid again it was almost five gallons low. The problem turned out to be a bad gasket / o-ring on the hydraulic fluid filter canister. Half of the gasket was actually missing.

I removed the filter which was installed prior to my ownership of the machine. It is a cat 9M9740. Having no local cat dealer and wanting to get back to work, I picked up a new filter at the local NAPA dealer. (NAPA Gold #1163) Turns out there was no new gasket or seal kit in the box with the filter. I am new to heavy equipment but I was an auto mechanic for many years. I never opened a new filter box and found that there was no gasket included with the filter, even the canister type had the gasket and bolt seal included.

Did I buy a filter that the seal kit or gasket was just missing out of the box, or do the larger filters come with no gasket and is the gasket a separate purchase?

I would think that the recommended filter is cat brand but what filters are ok to use other than cat?

 

[Nige]

Cat filters do not come with the gasket (or seal) for the cover. I have no idea about other brands.
The correct gasket part number for your D4E is a 3G-2276.

You can pretty much use any brand of filter in a machine that old, but personally I would stick with name brands and stay away from anything Chinese.

 

[Nitelite]

Cat filters do not come with the gasket (or seal) for the cover. I have no idea about other brands.
The correct gasket part number for your D4E is a 3G-2276.

Thanks Nige, for the part number for the gasket, using your info, I just ordered two of them from Cat.

As my dozer had a Wix oil filter on it when I bought it I don't have the Cat part number for the engine oil filter. Do you also have the caterpillar engine oil filter part number for the D4E 27x with the 3304 engine? I think I will use the OEM Cat filters.

 

[Nige]

Your engine oil filter would originally have been a 2P-4004, now replaced by 1R-0739. It's a spin-on and the seal is already installed on the filter.

You can buy Cat filters if you choose to, but something aftermarket like Donaldson would be just as good and possibly half the price.

 

[mitch504]

Around here the Cat filter is only a little more expensive and I have had trouble with Wix ( Carquest, NAPA) fuel filters on a 3304

 

[Barky]

Surprised to hear that (wix problems) I have always considered them on the high end quality wise. Sold them for 8 years. What kind of problems did you have ?? Besides a heart attack from the price heheh.

BTW, I have nothing to do with the wix co. B

 

[Nitelite]

working the buggs out

Around here the Cat filter is only a little more expensive and I have had trouble with Wix ( Carquest, NAPA) fuel filters on a 3304

I don't mind the few bucks for the OEM cat filters. I just need to keep some on hand to avoid the freight charges and down time.

Considering the fact that the dozer sat with little use for the past twenty years I expected some issues to come up. The fact that I am not an experienced operator also is an issue to overcome. After the fact, I doubt that an experienced operator would have lost five gallons of hydraulic oil before suspecting that there was a problem. You might say that I am paying my," stupid tax", as I learn.

While I am waiting for the replacement hydraulic filter o ring, I will use the down time to address another problem that I may need help with. Sometimes when I disengage the main clutch lever on the direct drive dozer and move the shuttle lever to change direction, the gears grind, especially if I hesitate or stop at the neutral position between forward and reverse. As I understand it, the main clutch lever has three distinct positions. All the way back toward the seat the lever locks in the engaged position, therefore driving the tractor in the desired direction as selected by the shuttle lever. Pushing the lever forward disengages the engine from the transmission. Further forward force on the lever is supposed to brake the transmission shaft so the gears can mesh without the grinding. Am I understanding the operation of the clutch lever right?

It feels like if I could push the lever forward just a little more the grinding would stop and it would drop into the selected gear. If I decelerate the engine, of course, the slower revolution of the gears make it easier for it to drop into gear.

Sometimes indeed I can apply more forward force on the clutch lever and it will stop grinding and drop into gear. Occasionally, because of continued grinding and not wanting to at all force it, I have needed to stop the engine, place the shuttle lever in the desired gear and then restart the engine. I am thinking that it probably is a mechanical linkage adjustment that requires removal of the seat. Am I on the right track or not. Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, where is the fuel filter located on the D4E 27x 3304 and does anyone have the Cat part #?

No doubt, I need a repair manual but it just isn't in the cards at this time.

Is there a lube chart online that shows all of the grease fittings on the machine. I really hate to ruin a part because of a neglected grease fitting.

Thanks for all of your answers so far.

I can't wait to get back to that great big white oak stump that has proven to be so stubborn! I need to improve my stump removal technique or get a bigger dozer.

 

[kshansen]

One reason Cat does not supply the gasket or orings on "most" filters is the same filter may be used in different type canisters that take different seals or like our 980G 2KR loaders, four filter in tow canister so we would be throwing out two every time we changed filters. One exception I've seen the last couple months is some of the hydraulic filters for our 773G truck. The oring comes in the box with the filter. The catch is if you were to order maintenance supplies by the list in the Cat filter search option on SIS they show the filters and seals separate. So now I have a spare set, just need to make a note in my filter list to not order seals.

Speaking of that filter you have to be ready when taking the brake filter canister off. Looks like a simple screw in canister which it is but the canister housing alone weights 25Lbs! Not a problem if you know that in advance but first time with hot oil in it it could be quite a surprise. And just for grins I checked the price of that screw on canister, $1,340.00 don't want to drop it and mess up the threads and have to tell the boss, or should I say your soon to be former boss!

 

[Nitelite]

working the bugs out

I ordered the hydraulic filter canister gasket from cat. I actually ordered two and hung one on the shop wall as a," don't be stupid again" reminder, and to have spare. Eleven dollars each for those rubber bands, but that fixed the hydraulic leak and that is what matters. I replaced the filter with a NAPA filter and replaced the lost fluid. NAPA filters are made by WIX and available locally.

The spin on filter that I, at a glance, took for granted as being my spin on oil filter is actually the spin on fuel filter. I bought a new one from NAPA. I have not yet ran across the oil filter yet. Is it under the machine? As I have been busy enough getting acquainted with the top side, I have not actually been under the machine yet, that is next.

I removed the floor plate under my left foot to see what was wrong with the main clutch brake. The problem turned out to be a combination loose pins and worn yokes. Fair wear and tear I think you call it. There are about four separate rods involved when the main clutch brake is engaged. Each rod has a yoke and a pin on each end and held in place with a carter key. All of that wear when combined was just too much to get proper leverage/movement to actuate the brake. I made some brass bushings and preformed some adjustments and it now works just fine. It would be nice if you could buy new pins that are about 25 thousands over in diameter to compensate for wear. I have a brother who can make some.

I was informed by the previous owner at the time of purchase that the Hyster winch did not work because of frozen control cables. I decided to see what was wrong with the winch while I was at it. First I needed to free up the push / pull cables. That was no big deal. I next removed the right hand, ( brake side ), winch cover. I had a drain pan under it. When I removed the bottom bolt it started running rusty water and it drained a total of more than three gallons of water. I thought that the winch was probably ruined. The dozer has spent the last 20 years inside a building. After a good inspection, actually, the water didn't hurt anything. The right compartment is supposed to be a dry compartment and be checked for condensation every 2 weeks. It contains only the brake band and is sealed from the left compartment that houses the gears and that compartment does run in oil. It could use a new brake band. I have had no luck in locating a brake band yet. Anyone know of a parts source for a Hyster D4E winch? I may be able to have my band relined if all else fails.

In order to remove the floor plate to gain access to the clutch brake problem, the winch control quadrant had to be removed and the cables removed on that end. I marked the location and position of the winch push pull cables as left/ center/ and right with a magic marker. When I reassembled the quadrant and started to adjust the cables I found out that the cables were not installed the right location. The brake and free spool cables were reversed by someone prior to my ownership of the dozer. I think that was why the winch was neglected and not used for so long that the cables froze up.

To free the cables I cut three pieces of 3/4 heater hose about 8" long and pushed one each over the outside of each of the cables and used a hose clamp to secure the hose to the cable outside shield. Each rubber hose was about two inches longer than the inner cable protruding from the outer cable shield and created a reserveor . I then turned the cable ends up, so that the extended rubber hose could be filled with BB Blaster and I made sure that it was down hill all the way to the other end of the cable. I let them sit that way for 24 hours and the PB Blaster leaked between the inner cable and outer shield. I then refilled the rubber hose with 30 wt motor oil and let it sit for another 24 hours then I inserted an air blower into the hose and clamped it with a hose clamp. I then applied 120 lbs air pressure. Oil was forced into the cable and actually was blown out the other end. The result was three like new cables. I think the price of those cables is $170 each plus freight.

I ran out of daylight this evening, but tomorrow I will finish adjusting the cables, fire it up, and see if the winch will work or if it has another unseen problem

Looking down through the top inspection cover of the left side of the winch it appears to be in good condition. Clean looking and full of oil, or maybe full of oil and water. The pipe plug drain refuses to budge so I haven't been able to drain it to check for water. Tomorrow I will try remove the drain plug using a cold chisel and a big hammer.

If I can get that winch going, I have about 25 twelve inch white oak trees that I need to pull down. They are on the side of a busy state highway, ( about 6 feet off the road ) I can't let them fall in the direction the road. They are in a 400' fence row across the front of my farm, too close to get in between them so as to push them parallel with the road. One tree would just fall into the next and get hung up. Another consideration, there is an underground 6'' water pipe running parallel on the other side of the row of trees. I don't want to run back and fourth across the water line more than I have to. The plan is to back up to the trees one at a time. Climb out of the cab and on to the roof. Hook the cable as high as I can reach, move away while paying out out cable a good distance, dig in and pull. I hope the roots do not wind around or cross under the water line. Once I get the trees removed and the old fence line out I can fill the stump holes using my ag tractor and front end loader. Then I'll have to re ditch the side of the highway using the dozer.

I didn't have a lot to do before I bought the dozer. Now there is not enough time in the day. I have spent a lot of time going over it and working on it so far, but that kind of dozer work doesn't require a lot of expensive fuel!

I did buy a 205 gallon fuel transfer tank and installed it in the back of my F 250. I gave $150 for the tank, 12 volt 15 GPM pump, hose and nozzle. The tank is like new and shines inside. I can fill it at CO-OP at off road prices. I think it will pay for itself in short order. I am too old to be hauling fuel in cans and climbing up there to pour it in the dozer.

Thanks for all of the help on this forum. It was a good day when I found Heavy Equipment on the internet!

 

[D6 Merv]

That neoprene seal leaking on the hydraulic filter is a common problem nitelite, replaced mine a few times too. I always drain it first, makes it abit lighter to remove.
Oil filter is on LH side of block, need to remove side cover to replace it.
winch control levers are outside one freespool [drum disconnect] centre one brake, inner one reverse [forward position] neutral and forward [rear position]
If you look up allied winch you can go to manuels and documents and download for free a D4E winch book. parts and maintence and operation is all in the one book.
A 12 inch tree wont take much to pull out !! be careful trunk doesn't snap and have enough rope out so tree wont hit you have fun !

 

[Nitelite]

I need help with PTO/ winch problem

I finished the winch control adjustments today and tried the winch. Everything now checks out ok on the winch itself.

I have downloaded the operation and maintenance information on the Hyster D4E winch but nowhere does it give instructions on how to actually operate the winch in conjunction with the D4E direct drive dozer operating controls.

I would think that the PTO would be engaged with the tractor main clutch lever. I have tried all options but the PTO will not engage. Is there a PTO engage/ disengage lever that I am not seeing? With the winch transmission access cover removed where I can see the gear coming into the winch housing from the PTO, nothing that I do with the tractor controls will make the PTO turn.
Am I not doing something right?

I do not have a repair manual for the dozer but I do have a parts book. No PTO is shown, However, looking at the Hyster diagram I see a pin and a coupler just before the PTO protrudes out of the back of the final drive housing. I am beginning to wonder if that coupling might be stripped or the pin broken.

Before I dig into this thing any farther, can someone tell me the proper placement of the tractor controls in order to allow the PTO to engage? (main clutch lever, transmission gear selector lever, and forward reverse shuttle lever.

If the trouble turns out to be the PTO coupler and/or pin how much trouble is that going to be. It looks to me like the winch will need to be removed in order to replace the PTO shaft coupler /or pin.

The Hyster manual shows that the pin and coupler are Caterpillar parts numbers.
Has anyone had experience with these issues?

I think that Hyster was bought out by Allied. I still have not found a source for the replacement brake band for the winch.
I saw on another forum where both D6 Merv and Old Magnet responded to a winch problem. It could be that they may have experience with winches and can help me solve the problem.

 

[D6 Merv]

pto shaft turns whenever clutch is engaged. Is the transmission bottom shaft and it turns whenever clutch is engaged.
If you've got the top winch cover off and can see the pinion and twin bevel gears, these should turn whenever the driveshaft universal turns.
If not somebody may have left the drive coupling off, or winch pto shaft has broken. Never ever seen or heard of that on a D4 winch, but have on D6/7s. You will have to pull winch to find out. BUT before you do that drain the tractor transmission oil first, otherwise it will be a dirty oily learning curve
For winch operation clutch needs to be engaged.Tractor Transmission speed selector in neutral; fwd/rev lever position is irrelevant. Winch trans lever in fwd or rev depending on what u want to do and then release winch brake as you engage clutch.

 

[Nitelite]

pto shaft turns whenever clutch is engaged. Is the transmission bottom shaft and it turns whenever clutch is engaged.

If you've got the top winch cover off and can see the pinion and twin bevel gears, these should turn whenever the driveshaft universal turns.
If not somebody may have left the drive coupling off, or winch pto shaft has broken. Never ever seen or heard of that on a D4 winch.

Now that you mention that someone might have left the pto coupler off, I have a receipt where there was some work was done to the transmission in March, 2007. It involved several gaskets, seals, roller bearings and tapered roller bearings The repair bill was $3913.85. That would also explain why the winch push pull control cables were installed in the wrong order. No new gaskets were used on the winch inspection covers. They didn't even scrape the old gaskets, just used red silicone. I don't think that they ever expected that winch to run again.

I really do think that your response to my post put me on the right track. I will pull the winch but I need to do some work with the dozer first. I am pretty sure as to what I will find when I do get the chance to pull it.

I guess that it is not all that big of a job. Just some big bolts and nuts, big wrenches, and time. I have a new McCormick AG tractor with a front end loader that will handle the weight of the winch. I expect that some mechanic has had a PTO coupler laying in the top of his tool box since 2007. :Banghead

I am usually up late. It is 2:00 AM here in Nashville TN. What time is it there when it is 2:00 AM here? Thanks for the quick post.

 

[D6 Merv]

I,m at the bottom of the world nitelite; actually its tomorrow where I am
8.30pm Thursday !
Wonder why that gearbox needed repair work ???? D4 manuel box is a very strong solid unit ?? Might pay to do some measuring of that pto shaft if you take it apart. Is more that one shaft listed in parts book, might have been too long and caused end thrust on bearings and someone decided to leave coupler off on purpose ??? Just a thought, looks like its winch off to find out.
If those winch bevel gears don't turn when universal joint spins, somethings very wrong.

 

[Nitelite]

I would think that if you are on the bottom side of the world that your whole world would always be upside down!

The repair order says that the job was to replace the pinion seal. evidentially they ran into some bad bearings too. There were four bearings replaced in all, one bearing was charged out @ $173.29, another @$104.41, another @80.31, and one @ $16.95. Shop materials used were charged out @$942.00. The labor charge was $2475.00 and a travel bill of $308.00. The rest was for o rings, gaskets, bolts and nuts and small parts.

With the brake side cover off of the winch, I can turn the winch main cross shaft by hand, using the brake drum as leverage. When I turn the shaft with the winch control lever in forward or reverse, the bevel gears turn and the pinion connecting to the PTO shaft going into the tractor is also turned.

At this point I guess that the most economical and best scenario would be that the coupler was left out. I will try to locate all of the suspect involved parts before I pull the winch.

I really could use the winch in what I need to do with the dozer. Another consideration is that If I get the machine stuck while cleaning out my lake, Just the cost of a toe would probably more than cover the cost to repair the winch. besides all of that, winches are harder to repair when they are stuck in the mud.

 

[Nitelite]

pto shaft turns whenever clutch is engaged. Is the transmission bottom shaft and it turns whenever clutch is engaged.

If you've got the top winch cover off and can see the pinion and twin bevel gears, these should turn whenever the driveshaft universal turns.
If not somebody may have left the drive coupling off, or winch pto shaft has broken. Never ever seen or heard of that on a D4 winch.

Now that you mention that someone might have left the pto coupler off, I have a receipt where there was some work was done to the transmission in March, 2007. It involved several gaskets, seals, roller bearings and tapered roller bearings The repair bill was $3913.85. That would also explain why the winch push pull control cables were installed in the wrong order. No new gaskets were used on the winch inspection covers. They didn't even scrape the old gaskets, just used red silicone. I don't think that they ever expected that winch to run again.

I really do think that your response to my post put me on the right track. I will pull the winch but I need to do some work with the dozer first. I am pretty sure as to what I will find when I do get the chance to pull it.

I guess that it is not all that big of a job. Just some big bolts and nuts, big wrenches, and time. I have a new McCormick AG tractor with a front end loader that will handle the weight of the winch. I expect that some mechanic has had a PTO coupler laying in the top of his tool box since 2007. :Banghead

I am usually up late. It is 2:00 AM here in Nashville TN. What time is it there when it is 2:00 AM here? Thanks for the quick post.