How long will a D4D run without oil?

[wbvs58]

OM, how long after running it dry did the $hit hit the fan? I have been running it very hard all day yesterday and so far today doing some root ripping on recently cleared land and so far all seems as normal. I realise things may lie dormant for a while but other than replacing the bearings which I have decided against, all I can do is use it and hope for the best.
Ken

 

[Dickjr.]

I would try it , but being careful to keep an eye on the oil pressure and listen for any suspicious noises.

 

[Nige]

Did you replace the engine oil filter and cut the old one open to check for any signs of bearing metal fragments..? That should give you a good idea of the condition of the white metal.

 

[Delmer]

Running out of oil in use and starting it up low are completely different situations, especially with regards to the piston/cylinder scoring. No way to guess what happened to the bearings without any evidence...

If we're making guesses as to how long it lasts, I'll say it lasts long enough that this will be mostly forgotten. Easier to say now that it's run two days.

 

[mitch504]

If it's run 2 days with good oil pressure and no ugly noises, I'd quit worrying much, but I'd watch it careful.

Back in 1991, I was in the sawmill business, just barely. I'd just had a major customer go under, almost taking me with him.

One Sunday my father wanted to use my single axle dump truck to haul sawdust from my mill to his garden. I told him to take plenty of engine oil, because my loader was losing it quickly (turned out to be through the hyd pump). The loader had a Ford 175 ci Diesel in it that I had completely rebuilt a year before.

Monday morning, he told me he was sorry he had screwed up. He had driven to the mill (10 miles of dirt logging road) and forgotten the oil, so he didn't even check it, he just loaded. Every trip, he forgot the oil until he got to the mill. Halfway through the 7th load, the oil light came on. He figured he'd finish loading and then shut it down! It locked up in a couple more buckets.

I put 5.5 quarts in a 6 quart pan, then had to hook 2 trucks to it to get it to turn fast enough to crank!

When it started, it had a terrible knock. I left it idling at about 550 rpm. He asked what I was doing, I said, "I'm going to sit here and watch a rod come through the block, then I'm going home and change clothes and look for a job!"

After about 10 minutes, it seemed like the knock was lighter, after 20 minutes, it definitely was. After an hour, you couldn't even hear it. It ran another 3000 hrs with good oil pressure, and is running still, but I don't know how well.

So, you may have my father's luck, and have dodged a bullet!

 

[wbvs58]

I've ordered a new filter just waiting on it to arrive. I'll let you know when I cut the old one open.
Ken

 

[wbvs58]

I got the new oil filter today and replaced it. I cut the old one open and to my eye could not see any sign of metal just oil soaked cardboard, actually to me the filter looked very clean.
Hey Nige, can you look up what oil filter should be on my CAT, the one I took off was a IR-0739 and they sent me a IR-1807. From the outside they look identical, which one is correct. The S/N is 82J3810 and it has the 3304 engine S/N 78P9498 arrangement 4N3803. Thanks Nige
I took some photos of the filter how does it look to you.


Ken

 

[Nige]

Ken, The only difference between 1R-0739 & 1R-1807 is that one is designed to be used with an aluminium filter base, the other one with a steel filter base. As filters they are identical internally.
The fact there are no large particles of white metal in the filter is a good first indication.
For your filter inspection, try this. Cut out a section of the filter media about 40mm long and about 60 degrees of the filter circumference with a sharp knife. Put that section of filter in a vice and squeeze it tight until it squeezes all the oil out. Then open up the pleats and look carefully right in the bottom of the them where the filter media folds. This is the location where the metal will accumulate if there is any.
Then when you take photos take them from really close up to the creases in the filter media.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

If it's run 2 days with good oil pressure and no ugly noises, I'd quit worrying much, but I'd watch it careful.

Back in 1991, I was in the sawmill business, just barely. I'd just had a major customer go under, almost taking me with him.

One Sunday my father wanted to use my single axle dump truck to haul sawdust from my mill to his garden. I told him to take plenty of engine oil, because my loader was losing it quickly (turned out to be through the hyd pump). The loader had a Ford 175 ci Diesel in it that I had completely rebuilt a year before.

Monday morning, he told me he was sorry he had screwed up. He had driven to the mill (10 miles of dirt logging road) and forgotten the oil, so he didn't even check it, he just loaded. Every trip, he forgot the oil until he got to the mill. Halfway through the 7th load, the oil light came on. He figured he'd finish loading and then shut it down! It locked up in a couple more buckets.

I put 5.5 quarts in a 6 quart pan, then had to hook 2 trucks to it to get it to turn fast enough to crank!

When it started, it had a terrible knock. I left it idling at about 550 rpm. He asked what I was doing, I said, "I'm going to sit here and watch a rod come through the block, then I'm going home and change clothes and look for a job!"

After about 10 minutes, it seemed like the knock was lighter, after 20 minutes, it definitely was. After an hour, you couldn't even hear it. It ran another 3000 hrs with good oil pressure, and is running still, but I don't know how well.

So, you may have my father's luck, and have dodged a bullet!

That is a great story Mitch.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

 

[wbvs58]

Try these photos Nige. If I go closer it becomes blurred. There are a few small black flecks on the paper but they don't seem to be metallic, they look like carbon particles. It surprises me just how clean this motor is, my diesel Toyota Landcruiser the oil would go very black as soon as it was run in the motor and it was indirect injection some other diesel engines I have keep the oil fairly clean but they are direct injection.
Which of those two filters is the one for an aluminium base?
Thanks Nige.



Ken

 

[Bluox]

A 1R-1807 is a advanced efficiency version of a 1R-0739,
Nige just made up the part about the aluminium base.
Bob

 

[d9e]

wbvs58, when our d4d dropped it's liner from grabbing from low oil pressure, it was about 100 hrs later after the lost pressure incident, a big puff of white smoke (coolant in the exhaust) young fella driving it shut it down instantly, so saved the block, towed it back to our workshop ,mechanic did a midnite job replacing liners pistons bearings, to get us going again (planting) many thanks to mackays diesel tractor service at dalby, tractor is still going strong after this event 30 odd yrs ago , worked hard ever since. hey scrub got a lister that broke off it's oil splash spoon on first run pumping water after o/haul, started it up not knowing and drove off leaving it pump , came back end of the day to a motor smoking hot and labouring, on pull down crank had chewed down to 1/2 its diameter AND WAS STILL RUNNING .

 

[wbvs58]

Ok thanks, I fell into that one, sort of like the difference between right and left handed screwdrivers.
Ken

 

[wbvs58]

Ok thanks Bluox, I fell into that one, sort of like the difference between right and left handed screwdrivers.
Ken

 

[wbvs58]

wbvs58, when our d4d dropped it's liner from grabbing from low oil pressure, it was about 100 hrs later after the lost pressure incident, a big puff of white smoke (coolant in the exhaust) young fella driving it shut it down instantly, so saved the block, towed it back to our workshop ,mechanic did a midnite job replacing liners pistons bearings, to get us going again (planting) many thanks to mackays diesel tractor service at dalby, tractor is still going strong after this event 30 odd yrs ago , worked hard ever since. hey scrub got a lister that broke off it's oil splash spoon on first run pumping water after o/haul, started it up not knowing and drove off leaving it pump , came back end of the day to a motor smoking hot and labouring, on pull down crank had chewed down to 1/2 its diameter AND WAS STILL RUNNING .

Yeh d9e, I realise I'm not out of the woods yet but so far there is not enough evidence to justify me doing something. Thanks.
Ken

 

[Bluox]

Ok thanks Bluox, I fell into that one, sort of like the difference between right and left handed screwdrivers.
Ken

Ken, it's not you its Nige,he's one of those wanabe experts who makes things up.I'll bet he's never seen a D-4.
Bob

 

[Dickjr.]

Ken, it's not you its Nige,he's one of those wanabe experts who makes things up.I'll bet he's never seen a D-4.
Bob

That's a little harsh about Nige , he has helped me as well as many others in the forum. I am glad he takes the time to help people. There are a few others that are helpful as well. If I had a tally on what the forum has save me , it would be at least a couple thousand dollars. Once the bridge is burned , its hard to cross it.

 

[wayne z]

Ken, it's not you its Nige,he's one of those wanabe experts who makes things up.I'll bet he's never seen a D-4.
Bob

I wouldn't bet on it. He saved me much headache and heartache when my D4D tranny stopped working by telling me exactly where to look for debris blocking the brake valves from releasing before pulling filters, pressure checks ect. and he nailed my problem. 5 munites and $0 later tranny was just fine and I had the warm fuzzies! Also gave me excellent advice on removing the corroded manifold bolts that worked.

 

[Delmer]

Ken, it's not you its Nige,he's one of those wanabe experts who makes things up.I'll bet he's never seen a D-4.
Bob

I bought Nige's "aluminum base" explanation hook line and sinker, that #$%! old coot. Of course it is funniest when you've believed the story for a while

 

[wbvs58]

I bought Nige's "aluminum base" explanation hook line and sinker, that #$%! old coot. Of course it is funniest when you've believed the story for a while

Of course I haven't heard back from Nige yet so his explanation could be correct. Yes I agree in the short time I have been on here he has been very helpfull and generous with his time. I appreciate his contribution and I appreciate the laugh.
Ken