Dozing advice

[Marksan]

Hello,

l have a few miles off gravel bush road to tidy up. The road its self is quite good but a little overgrown with 3' grass and saplings (mainly in the middle and edges. l have a older D6 with a tilt/angle blade.

l was thinking off angling the blade so the long edge is in the 'ditch' so to speak which will hopefully help keep the gravel on the road, do a pass either side and then a final backblade if need be with the blade squared off to level out the material.

l dont want to make more work than necessary and would appreciate any advice and pointers from those that know.........................unlike me whom is just guessing

Cheers

 

[vapor300]

thats excatly how i do it on a blade, should work

 

[Ehkart]

Everything except back blading always push, the machine isn't designed any other way. If you had to pull a smidgen of material back off a bench or into a hole where a rock was sure but it'll always impress the owner of the machine and the client when you can finish forward and only leave track marks.

 

[sheepfoot]

Well why not just mow it, I would hate to roll up 3' grass and saplings and try and clean that up. Unless the ditches needed pulling and the road base was bad i would leave it. That is the right way to go with a angle dozer, but i like to put the trash somewhere other than back into the road bed, you can make a mess and a lot of work for yourself!.

 

[OzDozer]

Marksan - You need a rake. You'd be better advised to rake out the vegetation first, then reform the road profile with the blade angled. Trying to clean up the vegetation in the manner you suggest, means you'll end up with a whole lot of vegetation, roots, limbs and leaves, mixed up in the road base material. The vegetation and road base mix is a poor mix for a road surface, and won't compact properly. The vegetation decomposes and creates holes and soft spots, and turns the road into a mess.
A good road base is a clean mixture of sand and clay and smaller particles, such as pebbles or small rock chips, compacted to reduce water ingress into the formation, and with a sloping profile that sheds water when it rains.
The mix can be between approximately 15% to 85% clay or sand (i.e. 15% sand/85% clay to 15% clay/85% sand), with no discernable vegetable material included, that's any bigger than half the size of your little finger.

 

[Swamp rat]

Wow - if a dozer cannt backdrag its about useless, what is the reason it cannt?

 

[oceanobob]

Fact: if the dozer is operated in reverse, the wear rate on the tracks is greater than if it travels in forward.
*
I understand this and it has graciously been explained here many times.

For me, I also consider two other things: the wear rate has to do with the loading so I conclude (possibly incorrectly) the loading isn't as great while in reverse since
a) the blade is not full and/or
b) is not cutting nor
c) can I run the rippers in reverse.

....and....sometimes you have to do something to accomplish the task.

Clearly, one must always remember the bill for the new tracks and rollers and sprockets is adding up every time the machine is run.
Due to the information I have received about this (mostly from this forum, thank you all) and my desire to delay said track $ bill, I try to minimize the time spent reversing and also reduce the speed in reverse.

 

[g_man]

Wow - if a dozer cannt backdrag its about useless, what is the reason it cannt?

From what I understand, because It is to easy, does to good a job, makes to much sense, and somehow advertises you as an amatuer which seems to be the main reason. I do it all the time for all of the mentioned reasons.
Keep in mind while back dragging your cutting edge is unsupported and may be more easily broken by rock. On most jobs I see dozing is a back and forth operation. It is pretty hard to limit the time spent in reverse so you might as well get some light work done.

As far as the road goes in the OP. If you drop the blade in the road you could end up with a tremendous amount of sod and roots to deal with. I would mow it first then keep it mowed and see what happens.

 

[oarwhat]

Swamp rat according to the experts backdragging is a not allowed. I don't do it all the time but it's crazy not to do it at all. If leave a small windrow I'm supposed to back up so I can level it out going forward? Makes no sense and costs more in fuel and time.

 

[oarwhat]

Wow we all posted at the same time! I agree and do run slower in reverse than forward. Also I'm not reversing with allot of down pressure

 

[oarwhat]

Well said G-man " On most jobs I see dozing is a back and forth operation. It is pretty hard to limit the time spent in reverse so you might as well get some light work done."

 

[Swamp rat]

I have heard and read a lot on the subject , here and elsewhere , but - for someone to profess to be a expert and they say a dozer is not to backdrag shows a limited mindset. Each time and occasion must be taken into consideration, but the chance of breaking the blade,edges,bolts ,etc are nearly zero until you are on a mid to large Dozer. If the person is a Operator he will have the mindset and knowledge to know when and when not to backdrag , now when you have a person who says they can run a machine and have have the Cocky attitude of they can do it all - thats the ones who will destroy any machine. A person on a hourly pay check will most likely have this mindset - the more time wasted means more time on the project and at the end more pay !!!
From a owners perspective - a machine needs to be accomplishing work at all times to be productive - why waste so much time riding backwards to get to a location to start pushing then stop and ride back agian ? Sometimes it is necessary to push in only one direction , but the majority of the time their is always a benifit to backdrag , if not only the occasional hump, dip ,etc - to keep the machine running as smooth as possible will save money and down time doing repairs.
The comment of the amount of wear on the tracks - this is a Highly debated issue as well , but from personal experiance - it is not noticable. Once the amount of time is saved and extra work is completed on a project - this will pay a lot more money in production than it will being worried about a little extra wear.

 

[Buckethead]

Fact: if the dozer is operated in reverse, the wear rate on the tracks is greater than if it travels in forward.

Do you grade in circles? Doesn't all those 180 degree turns tear up what you have just graded? I'd really like to know how you grade without backing up. :tong

 

[Marksan]

Thats very nice, now we have discussed the merits off backblading can we leave the pissing contest please.

l dont have a rake or a mower, that is why i asked the question as i did.

Thanks to the one person replied to the actual question asked.

 

[Marksan]

Everything except back blading always push, the machine isn't designed any other way. If you had to pull a smidgen of material back off a bench or into a hole where a rock was sure but it'll always impress the owner of the machine and the client when you can finish forward and only leave track marks.

That is hilarious! Spoken as a operator and not as a client. The last thing as i client i want to see is track marks, as a client i could care less about ware rates.

 

[ih100]

This " no back dragging" thing does my head in. The more running around - in any direction - the more track wear. If I can drive a few miles less to finish a job by back dragging, I'll do it, and I've never had a complaint from a boss for doing it. Generally they've wanted the job done as quick as possible and as well as possible. They've never come at me with "oh golly gosh, you've just taken an extra hour off the track life". Just out of interest, has anyone actually broken a cutting edge going backwards? I've done one going forwards, in reverse the angle of the cutting edge normally makes the machine jump over rocks, stumps, I-beams etc. As for removing the bolts, the heads are normally worn out and gas bottles take care of the nuts.

There's also a lot of horse #### on this site about hired operators not taking pride in the job and just caring about the paycheque. There are a lot of hired ops who care passionately about what they do, and companies get successful and big off the backs of these guys. There's also a lot of owner ops who get on someone else's machine and totally forget the standards they would insist on with their own machines.

Pick the operator, pay the operator, and mentor the operator into your ways, works far better than barking and threatening.

 

[sheepfoot]

Wow! we were asked about a road in good shape with 3' grass and saplings along the side and center and how we might address this and here we go into the back bladeing and sprocket wear issues. I think the question is will it do more harm than good and is the squeeze worth the juice to use the dozer he has on site. Once again my vote is to mow it and leave it alone if it's stable with rain and winter not far off.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Oh Boy! Marksan. I was staying out of this one but here goes.

If we visualise an established gravel road with three foot high grass and saplings down the centre and the edges what you have is essentialy a pair of gravel wheeltracks.

Unless you are prepared to make it into a big job to to even think of using a dozer is going to end in grief.

If there is vegetation between the wheeltracks that has to go.

Any notion of preserving the gravel is impractical . . . depends on what you want.

I can tell you for sure and for certain that your angle blade down either side and backblade down the middle is B/S will leave will leave a mess.

To do a mile of over grown road properly and to leave it smooth and driveable (assuming it's crowned) is a big job and will take a lot longer than you think . . . and if you havn't got hydraulic better make sure those tilt arms on the blade are turning nice and free.

Cheers.