• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Digging Sewer Trench - Laser Mast

Quantum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
108
Location
Seattle
I'll soon be digging a sewer trench about 300' long, and of course the grade will be inspected. Start will be ~8' deep and slope up from there.

I'm looking at buying a Bosch GRL 300 HVG laser and need an accurate way of grading the ditch. I've seen these receivers with one point of contact and they may be great for grading land or digging basements, but but they won't do for a sloping grade.

Somewhere I saw a light stick receiver with lights up and down it, which would tell me how much above or below the middle slope I am so I can feather it in. Anyone familiar? Or is there a better way?
 

td15c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
192
Location
IL
I use a gl622 grade laser and lr60 receiver with a home made mast on the bucket. I also use them on the tiling machine and the bulldozers.
 

td15c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
192
Location
IL
Forgot to say Both the laser and machine control receiver are spectra precision /trimble brand. I think shimmy has pic of cutting drainage ditch on grade with a laser and reciever on his hoe, on here some were. hopefully he will chime in.
 

cuttin edge

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,252
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
We use pipe lasers, spin lasers, a regular surveyor's level and rod, smart levels. A couple of the guys use a Carpenter's level with a stack of washers taped to one end. Sewer lines shouldn't have a lot of slope because the liquid will outrun the solids, causing build up. A spin laser like you are looking at with a receiver can be fastened to a survey rod . You would have to do the math at equal intervals to figure out your slope and move the receiver to the right position on the rod. We had a spin laser that wouldn't do slope per say, but if you had a start and finish grade, you could set the laser at one, adjust your receiver right at the laser, then go to the second point and use the remote to find the receiver. I think it was topcon. It was expensive and the remote failed in less than a year. Unless your talking grade control for your machine and in that I have no experience.
 

Ronsii

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
3,464
Location
Western Washington
Occupation
s/e Heavy equipment operator
You'll want a sloping laser if doing it the way you described in the OP.. or like cutting edge says you can get away with a regular(non-self leveling) laser to set slope.

A couple questions... are you digging the whole 300 feet before placing pipe? using shoring? any helper or is this a one man show?
 

cuttin edge

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,252
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
I was talking to our engineer last night, an he said, if you do a lot of pipe work, a pipe laser is the way to go. You can set it up at your start point. On top of a man hole, on top of your first concrete pipe, or even on an over turned milk crate. You can mark your grades on a piece of strapping and away you go. If you are only doing tie ins and residential stuff, he said a spin laser is more versatile and less expensive. He said to be aware that some beacon lights will interact with the receiver, and another spin laser on sight can throw it off as well
 

Ronsii

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
3,464
Location
Western Washington
Occupation
s/e Heavy equipment operator
Yes, definitely go with a pipe laser if you can... that's the easiest way to do it when you are deep and setting pipe as you dig, just got to make sure you know how to set it up right ;) and it doesn't move from the time you start digging til' you're done.

There has been many a time when we'd have to cover strobes or ask other contractors to turn them off cause they make the grade rod detectors useless if it has a view of the light.

Any extras details the OP can give about the project would help in recommending tools and techniques :)
 

Shimmy1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
5,568
Location
North Dakota
I wouldn't attempt this without a slope laser unless you are familiar with pipe laying. We put in sewer line for close to 20 years before our first laser in the late 90's. After using a 4' level, a laser was definitely an upgrade. I'm going to guess, based on your vague description of the job, that you are doing a hookup from the main to a structure? Is the grade going to be established, or will you have to set it up? Three hundred feet is quite a distance for a sewer drop, the slope will probably be between 1 and 2% (more than 1/8" per foot, but less than 1/4"). These kind of jobs need a pretty high level of precision, slight variations can affect the flow and allow for blockage, which is why they are requiring it to be inspected.

Back to your original question, you would be able to dig this with a straight grade laser, but it will require a little work. You would need to set yourself benchmarks, and be checking against those every 10-20' to do this right. I have quite a few more ideas and suggestions, but I'll let you respond to this before going further.
 

Bls repair

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
1,612
Location
S E Pa
Occupation
Equipment operator,mechanic
Make sure you check the laser to see that is reading right . I have used many that got knocked around and were off. Lasers, levels a transits should be calibrated at least once a year.
 

Quantum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
108
Location
Seattle
Sorry for the delay. I lost this thread. Good info here, thanks.

You'll want a sloping laser if doing it the way you described in the OP.. or like cutting edge says you can get away with a regular(non-self leveling) laser to set slope.

A couple questions... are you digging the whole 300 feet before placing pipe? using shoring? any helper or is this a one man show?
Idk. I'm open to suggestion. It'll be closely checked by the inspector, but then an open 7' ditch for any length of time is a hazard. One man show.

I was talking to our engineer last night, an he said, if you do a lot of pipe work, a pipe laser is the way to go. You can set it up at your start point. On top of a man hole, on top of your first concrete pipe, or even on an over turned milk crate. You can mark your grades on a piece of strapping and away you go. If you are only doing tie ins and residential stuff, he said a spin laser is more versatile and less expensive. He said to be aware that some beacon lights will interact with the receiver, and another spin laser on sight can throw it off as well
I don't understand "mark your grades on a piece of strapping". You mean tape on the excavator stick? I'm only doing this and one other job, but will look into a pipe/grade laser. Green lasers seem to be easier to see, but may not be compatible with stick receivers.

I wouldn't attempt this without a slope laser unless you are familiar with pipe laying. We put in sewer line for close to 20 years before our first laser in the late 90's. After using a 4' level, a laser was definitely an upgrade. I'm going to guess, based on your vague description of the job, that you are doing a hookup from the main to a structure? Is the grade going to be established, or will you have to set it up? Three hundred feet is quite a distance for a sewer drop, the slope will probably be between 1 and 2% (more than 1/8" per foot, but less than 1/4"). These kind of jobs need a pretty high level of precision, slight variations can affect the flow and allow for blockage, which is why they are requiring it to be inspected.

Back to your original question, you would be able to dig this with a straight grade laser, but it will require a little work. You would need to set yourself benchmarks, and be checking against those every 10-20' to do this right. I have quite a few more ideas and suggestions, but I'll let you respond to this before going further.
Putting in an 8" lateral from the main, to hook up 5 houses. I first need to have a surveyor set a marker for a height reference, then grade the land to the drawings. Have the street work done by somebody for water, sewer, and storm, then dig for the lateral, water, and storm onto the property. Checking the drawings, the lateral is actually about 200'.

What I've had in mind is a laser receiver on a magnetic stick with lights all along its length. This way I can gauge as I go, trying to allow for movement of the stick. Although, if I can find a grade laser for anything like a reasonable price I could do with a single-point receiver, although those seem to alert within a frickin' millimeter or two.

I don't really trust Topcon from things I've read. Bosch and Spectra seem alright.
 
Last edited:

cuttin edge

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,252
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
We don't do one man shows for something like that. Man in the machine and a man in the hole. Normally the guy in the hole checks the grade, and puts the pipe together. Most tie ins at least the shorter ones they just use a smart level. Works great. We have to bed the pipe so they mark the bottom of the pipe grade on the strapping, then a mark4 inches above that mark for the undercut. The guy in the hole uses the strapping and the red dot to check the grade. I have no idea what good it would do to fasten something to the machine. You are always facing the laser so the dot would be on the backside of it. I know you can rent pipe lasers here at United rentals.
 
Top