Deere 200C LC Hydraulic cylinders leaking all at once

[redmack]

By the time I'm done, we should have a text book with Deere excavator problems :Banghead

As most of you know, I just bought this machine about 3 months ago, my first excavator. I put it in about 25AC of stumps and that will tell all with any machine! There was one leaking cylinder on the boom that the original owner agreed to fix when I bought it and did so. After I got it home and worked it for about week or so the other boom and the top arm cylinder started leaking. I had them repacked by a local guy who is very good at it and the Deere dealer done the first one. Started back at it and after couple of days of work and noticed that they "all" had started leaking, even the one on the bucket that hasn't been touched. Of course the more I work it the worse it gets. No codes and had Deere mechanic check pressure etc. and found nothing wrong. He had to use his lap top to check codes because my cab monitor would only show dashes (------) and just didn't work when he tried to pull codes or anything else. Pulling oil sample today. My worse fear is the pump is coming apart and metal shavings are scaring the rods or eating the seals. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

 

[mikebramel]

Check for water or acids in the oil. May be corroding the seal cavities. Extend the rods. You will be able to feel and see anything that is causing a leak. Also check your pin alignment they will wear your piston and head bearings out very fast

 

[John C.]

What is the age of the machine and how many hours are on it. Overheating is the most common issue I have seen for all the cylinders leaking at once but there are other possibilities. Your oil sample should give you more information to consider. It is pretty common that the chrome on the rods may be worn allowing more clearance in the packing. It could also just be the time it needs to be done.

 

[redmack]

Hello, it's a 2006 Deere 200C LC with about 2900 (correct) HRS. I did notice some hair line scaring on the cylinders that wasn't there when we re-packed them. All hydro filters were replaced about 100 HRS ago. I doubt the repacking has 40 hours and it did begin all at once for all the cylinders.

 

[John C.]

I'm pretty leery about the hours. Who buys a machine of this size and only runs it an average of 414 hours per year. Time could be an issue though as most sealing compounds have a working and shelf live of about seven years, give or take. When you talk about hair line scarring, can you feel the lines without looking at them?

 

[arnette788]

check oil filter and suction screen

 

[redmack]

It's only natural to be leery about the hours, but I did verify with dealer service records etc.. If you look and willing to travel, you can find a low hour machine. Last year I bought an 2005 Deere 750C with correct 1800HRS. I have changed the tank filter, line filter and cleaned the tank screen before this started. I thought the pressure was set to high, because it is a very powerful peace of iron, but there on the spot. The scars on the rods can be felt and they run length wise.

 

[cutting edge]

It sounds to me like you bought a grenade.

If you can feel the scratches on the rods,you're in for a world of hurt. I'd cut that filter open and take a look, and if you still have the old one, inspect it as well.

 

[dschumacher]

It sounds to me like you bought a grenade.

If you can feel the scratches on the rods,you're in for a world of hurt. I'd cut that filter open and take a look, and if you still have the old one, inspect it as well.

yes this sounds bang on. anytime a cylinder starts leaking you have to suspect contamination. all those little metal bits from the part you didnt know was breaking are flowing around your system at 2000psi+ doing even more damage and it takes no time at all.

anytime a machine has had a hydraulic part failure, there is a very good chance it will be suffering from it for years as it takes alot of work to fully flush a hydraulic system.

if someone 'just replaced the hydraulic pump' on an excavator, i wouldnt see that as a selling point - i would be wary. if they had just replaced the engine though, thats a different story.

 

[redmack]

Hello men, took oil sample and sent it off for analysis, just got it back. I'll post it below along with pictures of inside tank and screen. Haven't had time to dissect the tank filter or pilot filter. Seems to be more rust than anything. Some of the rust on the tank screen looks shiny because of the camera flash and it's oily. It doesn't appear to be that shiny with naked eye. Your thoughts are appreciated!

 

[redmack]

More

 

[redmack]

Sorry, about so many post with pic's, upload troubles. And the oil analysis

 

[redmack]

Is that tank to rusty to put oil back in?

 

[AndrewC]

Hi, if it was me I would pull out the tank and send it to my rad shop and have them clean it with whatever solution they use and put it back on after reworking the cylinders. I have seen tanks a lot worse and still ok.

Replace with all new filters clean or replace strainer and change oil. If you are rebuilding them all the oil will be out of them too so changing the oil once will probably be enough with a sample after 100hrs and then samples every engine oil change after for a little while just to keep an eye on the oil quality.

I see chrome damage on your rods according to the report as well as I can make out with the poor quality pics. Looks like the silicon came through the wiper seals.

 

[Delmer]

I'll agree with Andrew, but I might clean the tank myself in place, it looks like that "rust?" will come right off.

I didn't see any metal bits but it's kind of hard on that screen. Did you pull any filters apart and rinse them in solvent to wash the oil off and leave the metal bits all cleaned up in the bottom of the pan? What kind of shape are the wipers in? Could some of the contamination come from the rebuilt cylinder, or suspect oil that the analysis pointed out?

 

[redmack]

Thanks for the more positive input guys, there's still hope. When I bought the machine I had one boom cylinder rebuilt before using and after about 40 hours use the other boom and the top arm cylinder started leaking. Had those two rebuilt and about another 40 hours they all started leaking again. I think all that rust just started working loose with use and worked over my cylinders good. Keep in mind that I just got the machine and it had been sitting for a while. I just hope the pump damage is at minimal. I found it funny that my local Deere said the the high levels of silicon was actually dirt.

I've been watching video's of people putting small pebbles/sand in the tank and strapping them to tractor wheel that's up off the ground. Put the tractor in gear and letting the pebbles polish the inside of the tank. Some of them are quite funny, but seems to work? You can not get to it all by hand to really clean it good. That's a good idea about the radiator shop, never would have thought of it. I'll keep everyone posted, but I'm still open to any ideals on how to clean the tank! Thanks a million!

 

[Delmer]

If you can disconnect the hoses from the tank, can you pressure wash (turbo nozzle) the inside of that tank, then vacuum it dry?

What I see in the tank doesn't scare me, but the cylinders do. It's only 7 years old, those wipers shouldn't be letting dirt/sand/silicon in, and the rods should be in good shape (barring abuse). I'm not sold on the rust as the cause of your leaks, not by itself in only 40 hours.

 

[redmack]

Time will tell all, got to get the tank clean, change filters and new oil. Going to finish this job (about 7 more acres of stumps) do fluid analysis and go from there. Got to get the fluid analysis in better shape before I rebuild the cylinders, that's not an easy task on this machine. Just rebuilt 3, I hate to rebuild them all just have it happen again. If I see the fluid analysis clearing up, I'd like to re-chrome the rods and get the inside of the cylinders polished up before repacking.

Whats the best way to get into this filter without any cross contaminating by sawing it?

 

[Delmer]

Aviation snips, punch one jaw through a hole and work in a spiral. or nibbler if you have one. Not the best way, but if you had the best tool already you wouldn't be asking.

 

[AndrewC]

The elevated levels of chromium in that sample is what points to the chrome flaking or wearing. You could have a slight bent cylinder too to make that happen also as it would rub against the bushing in the head of the cylinder. I don't see that tank as too bad in the rust side as to cause mass leakage of the cylinders. I have seen tanks worse with good oil samples.
If you say you have done cylinder work is there any warranty with your rebuilder left? Might help in the cost of all your work.
You can cut your filters apart but with what I see in the sample I don't expect to see any steel or brass but you may see oring material.