D8T Track traps material and over tensions

[DEMike]

Don't bother. My observation is his operators are too belligerent to try different techniques to solve this problem. I've pushed up a whole bunch of gravel over the years, both from a pile and next to a cut. It sucks big time trying to keep the material out of the rails. No amount of fricking holes in the pads is going to let 2-6" rock fall out, you HAVE to change how you approach the material.

Last point that I'm going to make. Trying to mitigate this issue of material getting in the rails is definitely having another effect, and that is rapidly increased rail/idler/bottom roller wear. I'm guessing they're probably getting closer to half the number of hours out of these rails as they should be.

You really shouldn’t use words you don’t understand bro. You don’t know my situation, so try to understand before you throw around the insults and tout your operating experience. It makes you an a***ole.
By the way, they do make shoes to help alleviate this problem. Go educate yourself before you start running your mouth.

 

[DB2]

You may just have to allow for more frequent undercarriage replacement. Have you tried running the tracks looser to see what happens?

 

[Junkyard]

You really shouldn’t use words you don’t understand bro. You don’t know my situation, so try to understand before you throw around the insults and tout your operating experience. It makes you an a***ole.
By the way, they do make shoes to help alleviate this problem. Go educate yourself before you start running your mouth.

While I don’t have a dog in this fight I would say it’s in poor taste for a new member to talk **** to one who’s been here a long time and is trying to help. While you may not care for his delivery I suspect his observations are on point.

 

[Vetech63]

 

[Shimmy1]

You really shouldn’t use words you don’t understand bro. You don’t know my situation, so try to understand before you throw around the insults and tout your operating experience. It makes you an a***ole.
By the way, they do make shoes to help alleviate this problem. Go educate yourself before you start running your mouth.

My apologies if you feel my approach was too forward, but my opinion stands. Ninety-five percent of my operating hours (somewhere north of 10,000) in a dozer have been pushing loose or bank-run coarse gravel, containing anything from 2" to 18" rock, pushing 8' deep waterline trench closed, pushing spoil piles back into a hole after pushing rock piles into the hole, and pushing out fill piles that were dumped with an end dump or side dump. Every single one of these operations require strict observance of certain protocols in how you approach the pile, or how long you run along the cut. Anything that gets attached to the track frame to prevent entry of material is going to be placed in close proximity to a moving part, whether that be a track pad, chain, idler, roller, or sprocket, and that is where things go sideways. There is going to be a specific amount of clearance required, and there will be considerabe amounts of material smaller than this clearance that will be trying to wedge it's way into the gap. You may be able to keep the sluff out of the bottom rollers and idlers, but you're going to create a different problem, and that is your operators are going to try and push their way through even more sluff, potentially overloading the shields that have been installed.

I'm guessing you hoped someone on here would give you the magic bullet to this problem straight-away, but from the responses that seems to not be the case. Once again, if I'd only have minor experience in pushing in extreme conditions, I wouldn't have came off so strongly. I've ripped off tension cylinder shields, roller guards, and sprocket guards. I've broken idler slides, broken sprocket segment bolts, and once had a rock get behind the sprocket on a smaller Case dozer and pull the sprocket shaft from the housing, destroying it. We wrecked an entire undercarriage in 1000 hours pushing snow one winter. Material flooding the track frame is definitely a problem with dozers, but adding more stuff to try and keep it out is not the answer in my opinion.

 

[DEMike]

Saying that the design of the tractor is the problem, when this has been an issue since the first dozer was created, defines the issue in my mind.

As mentioned, holes in the shoes help with certain materials that tend to pack in the sprocket teeth. The problem here is flooding the track frame with material, not packing. Using a narrower dozer like a straight or semi U versus a full U exacerbates the problem, but either way technique is the solution like Shimmy1 stated.

Maybe, production per hour is slightly higher by side cutting a pile of loose material, but cost per unit will certainly be higher given increased undercarriage wear and downtime.

Just my opinion, but it sounds like the OP should go back to 8Ks, or run another brand.

We are using the old D8H for those certain tasks because they don’t have this issue. The T works good up on top for ripping and pushing but can’t handle getting the fines getting in the rails. It’s never been a problem with the conventional track. I think cat needs to rethink some things with the high track

 

[Shimmy1]

We are using the old D8H for those certain tasks because they don’t have this issue. The T works good up on top for ripping and pushing but can’t handle getting the fines getting in the rails. It’s never been a problem with the conventional track. I think cat needs to rethink some things with the high track

Are the same operators running the 8H that are running the Ts? And, you haven't said yet what blades you're running on the Ts. If they aren't full U, that will factor in, even though some don't believe it.

 

[Welder Dave]

I can't see how the high track would make a difference all things being equal. Does the blade on the D8H stick out more from the tracks than the D8T? Would help to see the piles you're pushing and the blades on both dozers. If you're getting too much material in the tracks you need to do something differently.

 

[DEMike]

Are the same operators running the 8H that are running the Ts? And, you haven't said yet what blades you're running on the Ts. If they aren't full U, that will factor in, even though some don't believe it.

All blades are SU. It’s not a push and carry situation and it’s all hard rock that has to be ripped. Most of th time it rips and shorts pushes to 988 that loads over the edge. All the same operators with 25-50 yrs experience with different situations. Nobody can keep the fines out of the rails. It’s not the rock that’s the problem. The fines just compact on the T trying to go around solid idlers. They have a chance to escape on when they hit a sprocket on a low track.

 

[Shimmy1]

All blades are SU. It’s not a push and carry situation and it’s all hard rock that has to be ripped. Most of th time it rips and shorts pushes to 988 that loads over the edge. All the same operators with 25-50 yrs experience with different situations. Nobody can keep the fines out of the rails. It’s not the rock that’s the problem. The fines just compact on the T trying to go around solid idlers. They have a chance to escape on when they hit a sprocket on a low track.

It sounds possible that punched pads might help in your case IF, and only if your guys are at least attempting to keep out of the sluff. The punched pads are only going to let so much material drop through.

 

[Welder Dave]

Holes in the pads may be the best option to try.

 

[DB2]

It’s a proven solution in other materials.

 

[Welder Dave]

I thought he was talking about shale in general which can be larger size like rocks.

 

[Shimmy1]

From the first post, I imagined a standard dozer with a ripper, and already guessing there was a bunch of ripping going on. So, when they start pushing, they're going to have material constantly falling against the push beams, and getting picked up and dropped around the rear idler. Shale is kind of a bugger sometimes, since it's been ripped it's all fractured to pieces and doesn't take much to turn into powder. A full U-blade would definitely be better, once you get the blade loaded you can swerve out of the loose stuff, but it would definitely be more difficult to get started after ripping is done.

I think punching holes in the pads will help a little, but the operators will have to change their approach to fully solve this. I'd like to see some pics of the operation, as well as close up pics of the track pads. I'm going to venture a guess that the back edge of the pads is sharp like a razor, and there is a bunch of material falling down through the gaps as the rails move around.

 

[DEMike]

From the first post, I imagined a standard dozer with a ripper, and already guessing there was a bunch of ripping going on. So, when they start pushing, they're going to have material constantly falling against the push beams, and getting picked up and dropped around the rear idler. Shale is kind of a bugger sometimes, since it's been ripped it's all fractured to pieces and doesn't take much to turn into powder. A full U-blade would definitely be better, once you get the blade loaded you can swerve out of the loose stuff, but it would definitely be more difficult to get started after ripping is done.

I think punching holes in the pads will help a little, but the operators will have to change their approach to fully solve this. I'd like to see some pics of the operation, as well as close up pics of the track pads. I'm going to venture a guess that the back edge of the pads is sharp like a razor, and there is a bunch of material falling down through the gaps as the rails move around.

Thanks for your input. I don’t have any specific pictures right now. I’m out of town until next month. I’m going to lean on cat to stand by their product and see what they have for a solution before I spend money o. It. The problem can be worked around for the moment and works good for ripping and slot pushing. Keep you posted Thanks

 

[Welder Dave]

I think if the material just slides down and gets in the tracks slot pushing/dozing would add to the problem.

 

[Nige]

I’m going to lean on cat to stand by their product and see what they have for a solution

Based on my experience a dealer branch, or even their head office, is unlikely to have in-house expertise to help you in these specific circumstances. They will need to call on the Applications Specialists from the Track-Type Tractor Division in back at Cat HQ in Peoria. It may pay you to mention that the first time you contact the dealer. I would also strongly suggest that you get some video of the machine operating clearly indicating the issue that you have so that the dealer can forward it on to TTT when asking for their suggestions.

Also you have to bear in mind that this particular D8T is by now an almost 20 year-old tractor (built 2007) and to a large extent the level of assistance you get from the dealer could be very dependent on how much you spend with them. Sorry to say that but it's the way of the workd.

 

[DEMike]

Based on my experience a dealer branch, or even their head office, is unlikely to have in-house expertise to help you in these specific circumstances. They will need to call on the Applications Specialists from the Track-Type Tractor Division in back at Cat HQ in Peoria. It may pay you to mention that the first time you contact the dealer. I would also strongly suggest that you get some video of the machine operating clearly indicating the issue that you have so that the dealer can forward it on to TTT when asking for their suggestions.

Also you have to bear in mind that this particular D8T is by now an almost 20 year-old tractor (built 2007) and to a large extent the level of assistance you get from the dealer could be very dependent on how much you spend with them. Sorry to say that but it's the way of the workd.

You’re absolutely correct. We’ve been doing business with them since the 80s. I’ve been told they are working on getting an application specialist involved. We’ll see what happens. Thanks

 

[Nige]

In my dealings with them I've found the Application Specialists to be pretty sharp cookies. As per everything, what you get out of it depends completely in the level of information you put in. The more information they get the better-tuned will be the answers in relation to your specific operation.

 

[reganj]

From The Nige
As per everything, what you get out of it depends completely in the level of information you put in. The more information they get the better-tuned will be the answers in relation to your specific operation.


I challenge anyone to say it better!