Chevron deference overturned by scotus

[CM1995]

Big companies could fight the agencies on their decisions, normal people cannot

Yes.

We had to go to the big Federal building in Atlanta for our "hearing". Once passing through security that were armed like a SWAT team we finally made it to the 20th something floor.

Across the table were the accuser (inspector), the judge (his superior) and the executioner (the EPA's attorney). We pleaded our case for an hour or so looking over the pictures and discussing the accusations. Then the EPA attorney closes her binder, puts her hands together and says "We do not agree with that and that is what court is for". This meeting is over.

We were into it at that time for $55k with our own attorney's fees. Going to Federal court would cost well into six figures before the trial started so we did the only logical thing and caved.

Countless others across the nation have been abused in the same way and I hope this wrangles in some of this abuse by the Federal government.

If a contractor isn't accessing a muddy site why would anybody sane enter it?

WD because it's not about the environment - it's about power and control. Otherwise they wouldn't have done that.

FWIW we put some 6x6's and gates up at both entrances after that.

 

[cuttin edge]

We can't start a job here until the environmental stuff is looked after. Erosion control, buffer zones, silt fences. There is a small window of time when working in waterways. Fish capture. For the most part, fines are not that heavy. We once placed rocks into a river system for fish. It couldn't be done when the fish were spawning. Fisheries and oceans came up with the procedure, and it was going to cost the sports lodge over a million, but the fine for not following their plans was only $250 000. In the end, it cost him around $100 000 plus the fine. As long as you are not dumping oil in the water, most officers are happy if you just clean up your mess.

 

[funwithfuel]

If that wasn't the fox guarding the hen house, I don't know what was. We say you broke this regulation. You say, no. Fight in court, the gov't calls their expert who happens to be employed by the agency who is charging you with a "made up" crime based on their interpretation of the actual regulation. You lost before you even made it to the docket.

 

[CM1995]

If that wasn't the fox guarding the hen house, I don't know what was. We say you broke this regulation. You say, no. Fight in court, the gov't calls their expert who happens to be employed by the agency who is charging you with a "made up" crime based on their interpretation of the actual regulation. You lost before you even made it to the docket.

Pretty much and they are using unlimited tax dollars to prosecute you - they have all the money they need to win.

 

[IceHole]

Yes, I fought the Navigable Waterways, and Waters of the United States thing, for over 2 years back in the 90's. This had to do with wetlands, which were really active mines. A bunch of egotistical morons at those alphabet agencies Thank goodness we were mostly in Texas and Oklahoma, so the state people were not quite as bad.

It's interesting how here they are looking to punch a highway bypass road into the area by my land, which is all wetland, swamp, couple un named ponds and a small lake. All in a 50yr flood zone off a creek too.
Prime moose and water fowl ground.

Basically was told the rules don't apply to the .gov "do what I what"

We had to get permits to cut a fence line to fence in a couple parcels, about 300 acres total because part of it was swampy. Army Corp of Engineers, etc. Took almost a year for the ok of a section that took us a day to clear. Basically a ~20ft wide swath. Enough room to fence, get vehicles around to maintain the fence and mow

 

[Welder Dave]

Yes.

We had to go to the big Federal building in Atlanta for our "hearing". Once passing through security that were armed like a SWAT team we finally made it to the 20th something floor.

Across the table were the accuser (inspector), the judge (his superior) and the executioner (the EPA's attorney). We pleaded our case for an hour or so looking over the pictures and discussing the accusations. Then the EPA attorney closes her binder, puts her hands together and says "We do not agree with that and that is what court is for". This meeting is over.

We were into it at that time for $55k with our own attorney's fees. Going to Federal court would cost well into six figures before the trial started so we did the only logical thing and caved.

Countless others across the nation have been abused in the same way and I hope this wrangles in some of this abuse by the Federal government.



WD because it's not about the environment - it's about power and control. Otherwise they wouldn't have done that.

FWIW we put some 6x6's and gates up at both entrances after that.

It is a big power trip for some. Commercial vehicle inspectors can be the same way. They will find something wrong or at least something to complain about.

 

[zhkent]

I built some watershed lakes. The Mitigation procedure to satisfy the clean water act got to the point they quilt building them. So I have been affected and appreciate the frustration.
At the same time global warming is a very real thing. Also polluting is very real. I don't know the answers but this is going to be a step back and make both worse rather than better.
Frequency and severity of storms is rising. Insurance is going to get challenging. And now a lot of regulations are going to be trashed inflaming the problem.

 

[Drag racer]

I built some watershed lakes. The Mitigation procedure to satisfy the clean water act got to the point they quilt building them. So I have been affected and appreciate the frustration.
At the same time global warming is a very real thing. Also polluting is very real. I don't know the answers but this is going to be a step back and make both worse rather than better.
Frequency and severity of storms is rising. Insurance is going to get challenging. And now a lot of regulations are going to be trashed inflaming the problem.

Here we go!

 

[Catsparky1]

Maybe this will make carb STFU .

 

[funwithfuel]

Maybe this will make carb STFU .

Yeah but... CARB is not EPA and not federal bureaucracy. It would take state sanctions to tighten them up, I believe

 

[MarcusZ1967]

Here we go!

I'm not touching this with a 10ft pole.....

 

[aighead]

I think this overturn is great. Sure it may clog up Congress with a bunch of decisions but that, in my eyes, is way better than the 3 letter agencies intentionally writing confusing regulations so they are obliged to make the "laws".

 

[Truck Shop]

One member writes a opposite opinion that doesn't jive with everyone else on here----
and it automatically renders a {here we go} statement}. The reason nothing gets done
anymore.

 

[ianjoub]

I've seen a bunch of people complaining on tic Tok about this comparing it to roe v wade.

I think they are bots you literally cannot think this is a bad thing. I think the bots are just trying to pair it with roe v wade so communists get upset at the supreme Court.

This is probably the best decision of our lifetime and after that one is probably the bruin decision. Clarence Thomas is putting in work.

I've heard that there is not a lot of law around the emissions, so one just now needs to sue epa over emission regulations and get them struck down, every overstep will have to get sued first so it will take awhile.

Some jackwagon on MSNBC said this was undermining democracy. Hindering unaccountable bureaucrats undermines democracy how?

 

[cfherrman]

I built some watershed lakes. The Mitigation procedure to satisfy the clean water act got to the point they quilt building them. So I have been affected and appreciate the frustration.
At the same time global warming is a very real thing. Also polluting is very real. I don't know the answers but this is going to be a step back and make both worse rather than better.
Frequency and severity of storms is rising. Insurance is going to get challenging. And now a lot of regulations are going to be trashed inflaming the problem.

I'll believe global warming when the people that push them stop flying in a private jet and ban private jets all together, they also should ban water bottles.

One member writes a opposite opinion that doesn't jive with everyone else on here----
and it automatically renders a {here we go} statement}. The reason nothing gets done
anymore.

This thread is not political and I and the moderators don't want it that way. Hopefully the first one and now mine the only two.

Chevron deference getting struck down is a win for everyone, and anyone trying to push politics on it are clearly evil.

 

[cuttin edge]

The younger crowd blames my mother's generation for the state of the environment. She says they reused everything, and there was very little waste. The environmental crowd wouldn't know what to do with a cloth diaper. Things are a changin though. For the first time in my adult life, a tornado touched down in this area. It was in a wooded area, but it could have been bad

 

[HarleyHappy]

The earth has been changing before the start of time.
We little peons are practicing hubris if we thought we make a difference.
That doesn’t mean we couldn’t do things cleaner and better but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

 

[funwithfuel]

Might as well close and lock this thread. There's no way it isn't political at its core. I don't see how you can ignore the elephant in the room.

 

[cfherrman]

Chevron has nothing to do with the environment, if you want to talk about that start a new thread.

 

[CM1995]

Might as well close and lock this thread. There's no way it isn't political at its core. I don't see how you can ignore the elephant in the room.

Bad law and regulation is bad law and regulation.

You are the one that is bringing up politics so if this topic bothers you, then maybe not read or post in this thread.

Chevron has nothing to do with the environment, if you want to talk about that start a new thread.

Agreed.

Anyone wanting to talk about the climate can start another thread where it will inevitably go into the gutter very quickly and one of us Mods can send it to the basement.

This court decision will have a rippling impact on the construction and heavy equipment industry in a good way for years to come IMO. So this is an important topic of discussion and we should be adult enough to have it.