CAT C series Dust in Cab

[Yellowdog]

mostly on mulching but you get gritty when working in the dirt too. I'll know more if we decide to test the fix on Friday. I doubt it was tested much with a mulcher. I have heard others complain too, but they just lived with it.

 

[CarterKraft]

Believe it or not the C-Series were tested extensivly in and around Texas long before the machine was public. These machines were mulching the whole time.

As you know the CAB as a whole is not the major problem, the attachments windows, door etc, are were the sources for dirt entry.

Also the way the pressurised A/C systems are designed they must use outside air to pressure the inside of the cab. So if the outside element is clogged and the differential from inside to outside is even or less, then you guessed it no CAB pressurization.

Seal up the windows, all the way.

Make sure the door latches, all the way.

Keep the filter clean.

 

[Yellowdog]

Believe it or not the C-Series were tested extensivly in and around Texas long before the machine was public. These machines were mulching the whole time.

As you know the CAB as a whole is not the major problem, the attachments windows, door etc, are were the sources for dirt entry.

Also the way the pressurised A/C systems are designed they must use outside air to pressure the inside of the cab. So if the outside element is clogged and the differential from inside to outside is even or less, then you guessed it no CAB pressurization.

Seal up the windows, all the way.

Make sure the door latches, all the way.

Keep the filter clean.

I have been disappointed as everyone knows. I figured for about $60k plus tax just for the machine, advertised as fully sealed and pressurized, the windows and doors would have been taken into account. From what I have heard, some of the prototypes had thicker lexan than the production machines? Maybe that explains the poor seal that the door makes. The windows, for machines in dusty environments should have been 1 piece that is either rigid or "pops" open like on an older ext. cab truck. The latch or tab would help pull the window tight and seal out the dust. My trucks don't leak dust near as bad on these dry caliche roads or for that matter, when I am chipping, which leads me to think that there was an oversight or they figured they would catch up with it later when a fix was developed. I have griped because "nobody knew nothin', " so to speak. I commend Holt for trying to work with me but who up the chain didn't pass down the info? I thought all of the CAT dealers were tied in to share ideas? Yancey Cat in Ga., has supposedly known about the this issue for some time and developed a fix. I wonder why this wasn't caught during testing in Texas? Green brush is not dusty as dry cedar. I know the whole country isn't made up of cedar but that's what's important down here and those dry trees pose more of a problem with dust control (and the poor, thin soils that are easily kicked up by the mulchers).

I have my test in the morning with CAT reps, Holt reps, and the 272c with the air intake modifications. I will post an honest assessment of the snorkel. I am losing money because I can't plan..so I'm upset about that and I am postponing the start of a large job to do this test. Holt told me they worked hard on the upgrades so I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt because I think they want to work with me and others who may have a similar issue.

 

[Yellowdog]

Well we had the test.

Cat factory rep, Salesman from Waco, Holt Service manager, Holt Sales manager, my sales guy, a field service tech, and product support guy.

Everyone seemed to admit that my conditions here are the worst they have seen. I admitted that it isn't always this dry and dusty but it can be. I try to use my head and keep the wind behind me and try and let the dust settle when there is a white-out but it's tough to do when the winds are variable.

First of all, the snorkel is a good idea. It is fabricated to fit over the outside air filter housing. It moves up the side of the cab to an elbow that ends with a small air pre-cleaner that sits behind the cab. The pre-cleaner is plastic the snorkel is metal. I don't know how it will hold up when tree shearing and a few of the guys questioned the same thing. Cat is supposedly working on a factory-made fix.

The test was only for about an hour. Hardly long enough to make a good assessment so we agreed to do more testing as my jobs and time allows. After the roughly 1 hour of testing, we opened up the snorkel and found the filter wasn't too bad but I didn't expect it to be clogged after an hour. The inside of the air intake cowling, however, showed signs of dust bypass. I did notice some dust in the cab but the other two operators said they didn't. I guess I am more sensitive to it because I'm so sick of it but that's another story.

My contention all along is that there is a problem under the cab with dust entering AC ductwork and there is a problem where the filters meet up with the air intake on the side of the machine. With only one nut to secure the snorkel or filter cover before snorkel was installed, I don't think there is enough pressure on the filter to make it seal good. Since the A/C system is lackluster as far as moving air, there isn't a good seal made. I would expect the A/C system, as complicated as it looks on the C series, to pull hard against the filter and "suck" it to the housing making a good seal. This doens't happen, however, and machine vibration I think allows dust to bypass the filter and enter the system. I noticed today, upon inspection after grinding, that the snorkel actually has play in it and I think the snorkel housing actually compounds the issue of the filter not making a good seal.

Right now, it's hot and the A/C system at 93 deg. outside temp is only putting out 73 degrees at the vents with two vents open. If I close all but one vent, I get 69 deg. Hardly crisp and not enough to cool the cab. The cab is staying a balmy 85 deg. at head level. That is hardly acceptable and it feels stuffy inside. In comparison, my Bobcat is putting out cold air, same temps today, and it feels great in the cab. So, I still think my CAT AC is unacceptable. This has been the issue all along and the only thing I have complained about.

 

[KSSS]

If all the AC can muster is a 10 degree drop from outside air temp to inside of the cab, CAT has some more work to do on the machine. Even at the vents it is only 20 degrees give or take difference. It sounds like perhaps a condensor issue (correct Freon charge) or AC unit plugs with dust preventing the AC unit to cool itself. I am sure such easy things as this have been looked into.

The question I would like to know is this 272C not functioning correctly or is it operating the way it was designed to and it is obviously not designed well enough to keep the cab even somewhat cool (not to mention the dust issues) under the conditions your operating in.

Does the loaner 256C do a better job cooling the cab than the 272? It would seem to me that would answer the question I have, since both units have been operating in what I would assume to be the same environment.

 

[Yellowdog]

The AC used to work good. Leads me to the path of the condenser being clogged again or damaged. Freon was checked before it went back to shop for 22 days. It read good. We just got in from checking it again with a 3rd pair of eyes. 93 deg. outside temp. 77 degrees come out of vents. Got it down to 75.4 then back up. Head area temp was high 80's to 90. We ran the machine at full throttle to have max air moving across evaporator. On 272c, the aftercooler fan also blows air across the evaporator.
To me, this is one of the design issues. With no stock guarding around openings of the cab, in mowing enviroments or even just working around fluffy materials like Cotton and other seeds, the aftercooler fan shroud clogs and reduces airflow. I blew everything out, however, before our tests... Not sure what is going on but it is going to be a long week when temps hit 100.
Everyone at Cat says it's just my machine..
The 256c does a better job cooling but it came with condenser clogged with leaves and sand. I had to gently vacuum it out and clean it up but it had a very low output at the vents. The loaner had been abused. Cat admitted that. I didn't mow much with the 256c. I had to wait for a lexan door and decided to book some dirt work. To be honest, I didn't do much over the last 2 weeks other than some grinding of green brush and dirt work. I certainly didn't work the loaner too hard.
Just feels like the twilight zone around here!

 

[KSSS]

It sounds like the Twilight Zone. If CAT says it is just your machine than they should prove that by bringing in another 272 to run. This would confirm that it is or isn't just your machine and it would be a more adequate loaner than the 256C which obviously was not set up to replace your 272 while it was down. Although it was good they gave you a 256 to use (and they should since their new machine has been malfunctioning since you took delivery), I think they should provide you a machine that is equipped as needed to replace your down machine. It does little good to give you a loaner if it is not able to put you back to work while they scratch their watch trying to fix yours.

CASE here got in a cab equipped 465, but unfortunately it came in ISO pattern. I will have to wait for a CASE pattern machine to demo one. Supposedly a 440 cab unit is on the truck coming this way. The literature says that there is only a 5 degree difference in the cab from feet to head. I am anxious to put it to the test. It is finally looking like Summer here. The heaters have been used up until 3 days ago. I also am filing the smoke bomb test away, should I order one. That will be done prior to delivery to me and all leaks if any, fixed prior to me taking delivery.

 

[Accertin]

Just drop it and move on dust in my cab, what a joke

:usa sorry Yellowdog, go move forward with the lemon law.. Tired of hearing your gripe. Move on or ointhead

 

[Yellowdog]

:usa sorry Yellowdog, go move forward with the lemon law.. Tired of hearing your gripe. Move on or ointhead

Who was talking to you?

 

[Yellowdog]

The literature says that there is only a 5 degree difference in the cab from feet to head. I am anxious to put it to the test. It is finally looking like Summer here. The heaters have been used up until 3 days ago. I also am filing the smoke bomb test away, should I order one. That will be done prior to delivery to me and all leaks if any, fixed prior to me taking delivery.

I wasn't unhappy with the 256c but was never offered another 272c to compare to. The 256c just didn't have the same roc and hp that I am used to making it a bit tippy. They did swap my door out with the glass door so I had lexan to grind with then we realized they wouldn't get a good test with a glass cab since the glass is more rigid than lexan and the glass doors seem to seal better. I was told that the prototype testing units had what the rep thought was thicker lexan. Not sure if that would make difference but the lexan on there now seems to seal pretty good.

For the CASE A/C 5 degree difference isn't much especially if the air is moving. That cab sounds like it would be comfortable especially down here in S. Texas where it can hit the century mark for a week straight with no clouds in the sky.
Some people still think dust in a cab is okay for grinding. Let them try it for 8 hours and do quality work and we'll see if they can. Not only will an AC system that is designed to be free of dust fail, it will lead to downtime, repairs, and an uncomfortable operating experience.

 

[jmf]

I thought there were gaps in the cab seal where you could see the dust coming in. Now it sounds like a filtration issue.

jmf

 

[Yellowdog]

I thought there were gaps in the cab seal where you could see the dust coming in. Now it sounds like a filtration issue.

jmf

They replaced the door again and their is a small opening and the door still needs to be adjusted but it is minor. everyone seemed to think that dust was entering from somewhere under the cab which is one of the areas I have been documenting with pictures. The door seal is "off center" for some reason. I am thinking now that there is an adjustment that can be made to hinges. I remember one of the field techs telling me they had drilled out the holes to make adjusting easier than the factory had sent it out. It's possible that someone forgot to clean out the condenser again. They had done it right before it went in for the 22 days but I'm not sure if it was cleaned out again. It had the same symptoms this time as it did when the condenser clogged. No air flow, no pressurization, dust finds it way into every thing especially the duct work and it's possible the area under the cab is the culprit. Short of a fibre optic style monocular, I'm not sure how they can see under the cab when it is in its correct position and tightened. You can remove two side panels that the cab rests on but I don't think it would be an accurate test. Someone suggested "lipstick" on one of the duct seals to see how and where it meets the bottom seal.
That would at least tell us if there is a gap. It's just foam so it's possible it doesn't make contact all the way around and with the aftercooler pulling in debris from the front of the machine while mowing, it's possible it is being pulled into the system right there.

 

[KSSS]

Someone suggested "lipstick".

I have word by a solid source that CAT equipment actually prefers lipstick, some say they run better with "Hot Pink" others say more of a "Crimson Red". Sorry I just cant help myself.:beatsme

 

[Yellowdog]

I have word by a solid source that CAT equipment actually prefers lipstick, some say they run better with "Hot Pink" others say more of a "Crimson Red". Sorry I just cant help myself.:beatsme

You are a baaaaad man! :falldownlaugh

 

[Iron Horse]

You guy's are turning me off tracked loaders . Ive been wanting to buy a Posi or a Cat but wont put up with that crap . My New Holland tractor is in the dust all day flail mowing Lantana and the like as the chaff is very fine from it . Ive even put out grass fires by stradling the flames and putting them out with the flail mower . When i'm done you can't tell what colour the tractor is supposed to be with all the fine dust , but i have never had a speck inside the cab . I come home looking the same as i'd left . And if i go to the pub my mates ask if i had'nt worked today because i'm still clean . I'd come off the chain if i'd spent big dollars on an enclosed machine and come home filthy . They will want to fix that if they want my money .

 

[jmf]

The tractor is a proven format, but it is limited. I have a project that is full of slopes, mud and large trees to remove. These tasks require something more grounded. When it comes time for regular mowing, I always go with the tractor, but when I'm mowing areas that have never been mowed, the CTL is better suited. CTL's are still in their infancy, but the concept has proven its worthiness. I'm not sure if it will be Cat or ASV, but one of these companies will be challenging the tractor's realm in the near future. I have an ASV SR80 and the only time I get dirty is when I clean the machine at the end of the day.

jmf

 

[Squizzy246B]

I spoke to an operator a few days ago who has about 400 hours on a 277C and he had nothing but praise for the cab and he works in dusty conditions most of the time.

 

[Yellowdog]

I spoke to an operator a few days ago who has about 400 hours on a 277C and he had nothing but praise for the cab and he works in dusty conditions most of the time.

Yeah, it must have been just my machine. I really liked the overall CAT and the cab layout and I miss it. Nobody could get it right, though.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

What's the status now?

 

[KSSS]

What's the status now?

I tried to convince him to try a CASE, but he would have none of it. Unless Yellowdog has changed his mind it is back to a S300.