CAT 403F IT RGS00497

[mike holcomb]

Ccv filter pretty oily for 1k hrs since changed, oil looks like it was leaking out of a sensor in the side of intake where intercooler pipe clamps on. Have oil dripping out cold side turbo. Took filter out and had it running seemed like a lot of blowby but I'm not sure what is normal with filter out? 5200hr, time for turbo im thinking

 

[mike holcomb]

It was really oily on this side of intake where that banjo bolt is, I cleaned it off. The plastic breather hose that runs thru that area is not worn through. I replaced it 1k hr ago from being worn thru from rubbing that line that has banjo bolt. Seems like a little to much oil in cac pipe for being normal?

 

[Island_catguy]

Might be the turbo. Have you already checked if the boot is torn off of the other side of that hose? On the bottom of the charge air cooler. If it is torn, it causes imbalance in the turbo seals and will leak oil.
Also did you check the oil level to make sure it’s not over filled?

 

[Island_catguy]

That’s a 430f with the c4.4. I’ve had the same issue a few times. That crank case breather is useless, gut it by taking off all that filter gauze stuff off with a blade. That will choke your engine. Check that boot on the bottom of the cooler on the left side. That oil is gonna gum up the egr. After you fix the oil leak I’d take the intake off and soak it over night. Prob need to clean the dpf too.

 

[mike holcomb]

That’s a 430f with the c4.4. I’ve had the same issue a few times. That crank case breather is useless, gut it by taking off all that filter gauze stuff off with a blade. That will choke your engine. Check that boot on the bottom of the cooler on the left side. That oil is gonna gum up the egr. After you fix the oil leak I’d take the intake off and soak it over night. Prob need to clean the dpf too.

I had something else to do last couple days. Monday I'm going to put back together and run it to see where the leak is coming from. Im almost wondering if it was blowing out of the pipe on backside of ccv because it was so full? I will check lower boot. Yes oil out of turbo, but nothing in the intake boot. Very light mist maybe. It was a little over full this time cause that stupid dipstick. Last service it was like 2in up the spring on dipstick. So maybe that's why it filled ccv with in 1k hrs? I think most might be from over filling?

 

[Island_catguy]

Yeah remember those models you change the oil every 250 hrs. That turbo oil drain tube goes right down to the side of the block and if it is over filled you will get all kinds of problems. 2 in over the spring is a lot. Change the oil.

 

[mike holcomb]

Yeah remember those models you change the oil every 250 hrs. That turbo oil drain tube goes right down to the side of the block and if it is over filled you will get all kinds of problems. 2 in over the spring is a lot. Change the oil.

Oil sample came back ok. Iron was kinda high, it was at 60ppm but wasn't flagged. Pretty sure i found where leak is coming from. Seems like there is a lot of crankcase psi, there is a blow off valve on back side of CCV canister that whistles when u rev it up. If I block blow by tube with my hand it opens that valve at idle. Quite a bit of psi at idle. Why does it have high psi ? I would think if something was going wrong with engine it would've surely showed up in oil sample, specially at 500hr service on oil. Engine has 5k hrs on it

 

[Nige]

I dunno but I would normally be wary of any oil sample containing over 10ppm of iron at the time of an oil change. Do you have a copy of the complete analysis.?

 

[Island_catguy]

I dunno but I would normally be wary of any oil sample containing over 10ppm of iron at the time of an oil change. Do you have a copy of the complete analysis.?

 

[Island_catguy]

There is a lot of soot in the oil. Wondering if the dpf is clogged. What is the oil level at now?

 

[Nige]

A quick scan reveals iron trending up, silicon ditto. Silicon above 10ppm is a definite no-no and reportable if I remember correctly. That kills engines. Problem is that the previous sample was so long ago and it looks as though a number of oil changes were made when no sample was taken. That doesn't make interpretation any easier when there is so little info to go on.

Are all the soot results measured in the same units.?.

 

[mike holcomb]

Yes more samples should've happened, but they didn't. Sometimes u think when machine is giving no issues and when taking samples on other equipment that shows everything is well we kinda let it go. Important lesson here, should atleast engine sample every oil change or atleast every other if u dont wanna be shocked when something goes wrong

 

[Nige]

Another thought springs to mind. The engine oil/filter change recommendation is "Every 500 Service Hours or 3 Months" whichever occurs first. This particular machine has clocked just over 5000 hours in 11 years, so around 500 hours/yr on average. My assumption is that the oil is being changed every year, give or take. IMHO oil changes should be time-based rather than hours-based. I wouldn't personally go as aggresive as every 3 months as the manual suggests but certainly every 6 months.

 

[mike holcomb]

Another thought springs to mind. The engine oil/filter change recommendation is "Every 500 Service Hours or 3 Months" whichever occurs first. This particular machine has clocked just over 5000 hours in 11 years, so around 500 hours/yr on average. My assumption is that the oil is being changed every year, give or take. IMHO oil changes should be time-based rather than hours-based. I wouldn't personally go as aggresive as every 3 months as the manual suggests but certainly every 6 months.

Depends if we have a 5th job going on then it gets used as a loader since we onlyhave 4 loaders.. And usually will get the hrs on it where it gets changed sooner. Our JD backhoe samething sits 75% of time at shop. 2012 and it only has 3k hr

 

[mike holcomb]

Another thought springs to mind. The engine oil/filter change recommendation is "Every 500 Service Hours or 3 Months" whichever occurs first. This particular machine has clocked just over 5000 hours in 11 years, so around 500 hours/yr on average. My assumption is that the oil is being changed every year, give or take. IMHO oil changes should be time-based rather than hours-based. I wouldn't personally go as aggresive as every 3 months as the manual suggests but certainly every 6 months.

Last summer they were using it on a job and that's when I found the breather pipe that goes to CCV filter housing was rubbed thru by wiring harness, who knows how long it was rubbed thru? I really dont think dirt/dust would get into engine since its blowing CC pressure out that hose to CCV filter. The air filter on this machine is some big square thing and it has a press fit kinda like cabin filter for prefilter before turbo, I've never seen that filter even slightly dirty.So I'm kinda baffled how dust would get into engine and wear rings, if that's the case? I think it should have a compression test to see if something is going on in a cylinder? What do u think about that?

 

[Island_catguy]

Another thought springs to mind. The engine oil/filter change recommendation is "Every 500 Service Hours or 3 Months" whichever occurs first. This particular machine has clocked just over 5000 hours in 11 years, so around 500 hours/yr on average. My assumption is that the oil is being changed every year, give or take. IMHO oil changes should be time-based rather than hours-based. I wouldn't personally go as aggresive as every 3 months as the manual suggests but certainly every 6 months.

There was an updated document that came out saying to switch to oil changes every 250 hrs because the oil gets sooted up quicker with the dpf.

 

[Island_catguy]

Last summer they were using it on a job and that's when I found the breather pipe that goes to CCV filter housing was rubbed thru by wiring harness, who knows how long it was rubbed thru? I really dont think dirt/dust would get into engine since its blowing CC pressure out that hose to CCV filter. The air filter on this machine is some big square thing and it has a press fit kinda like cabin filter for prefilter before turbo, I've never seen that filter even slightly dirty.So I'm kinda baffled how dust would get into engine and wear rings, if that's the case? I think it should have a compression test to see if something is going on in a cylinder? What do u think about that?

The primary filter is the one you pull out sideways, secondary is the one pressed in there after. Really good system, dirty won’t pass thru.

Are you having a misfire? Do you have cat et? Are there any red lights on the dash? Is the machine derated?

 

[Nige]

There was an updated document that came out saying to switch to oil changes every 250 hrs because the oil gets sooted up quicker with the dpf.

That does not surprise me. I was never a big believer in 500 hour oil changes right off the bat as per the O&M. In my opinion 500 hour changes were a sales Dept gimmick because so many caveats were put in O&Ms regarding why a customer COULD NOT go 500 hours it was laughable. The problem is that customers never read the caveats unless a proactive dealer pointed them out, and just went blindly on their way changing oils at 500 because "that's what the book said".

There is a document on optimizing engine oil change intervals that is well worth a read. I think it is PEDP7035 but don't quote me on that. Below is a link to the customer document but there is a dealer-only doc which is the one I'm thinking about.

https://www.toromontcat.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/optimizing-oil-change-intervals.pdf

 

[Nige]

Depends if we have a 5th job going on then it gets used as a loader since we onlyhave 4 loaders.

The numbers don't lie. It's done just over 5k hours in 11 years. With an average of only 500 hours/yr it should be on time-based oil changes not hourly-based. At least IMHO.

 

[Island_catguy]

Yeah we have multiple customers that use them just to load dirt into dump trucks and don’t ever notice they are actually derated until they get it where the pedal doesn’t respond.

Here is what I would do in this situation. Pull the dpf and clean it.

If the dpf is clogged, it will cause the turbo to be off balanced and it will leak at the shaft seals and can cause pressure down into the crankcase from the drain tube. You might end up replacing the turbo. Does it have play?

Also you changed the oil right?