CAT 259D - No Crank E459-2 Code

[acolar]

Hi Guys
Trying to help my son diagnose a 2015 CAT 259D with 2092 hrs, serial FTL03587.
Initial symptom was no crank due to low battery, jump started and ran all day.
Drove it onto trailer and off trailer into the shop and next start attempt was a no crank with the E459-2 code.
Charged battery , checked a number of grounds, checked fuses and still no crank with E459-2.
Looked over the couple of posts on the site and will check the engine grounds and diode harness at rear.
Found a power block inside engine compartment left side forward of fuel filter with a B+ lead from battery and
a couple of 50A fuses that looks very corroded but i was able to read battery voltage on the posts of the power block.
Was going to try and clean up the interface but worried if I try to break the nuts free the studs may break due to corrosion.
No schematic and unfamiliarity with CAT component locations is really hampering the troubleshooting.
Wondering if a Engine ECM or Machine ECM power relay is not engaging preventing CAN bus traffic between ECM's?

Anyone know how I can find an electrical schematic for this machine please? Thanks in advance.

Tony

 

[acolar]

Hi Guys
Trying to help my son diagnose a 2015 CAT 259D with 2092 hrs, serial FTL03587.
Initial symptom was no crank due to low battery, jump started and ran all day.
Drove it onto trailer and off trailer into the shop and next start attempt was a no crank with the E459-2 code.
Charged battery , checked a number of grounds, checked fuses and still no crank with E459-2.
Looked over the couple of posts on the site and will check the engine grounds and diode harness at rear.
Found a power block inside engine compartment left side forward of fuel filter with a B+ lead from battery and
a couple of 50A fuses that looks very corroded but i was able to read battery voltage on the posts of the power block.
Was going to try and clean up the interface but worried if I try to break the nuts free the studs may break due to corrosion.
No schematic and unfamiliarity with CAT component locations is really hampering the troubleshooting.
Wondering if a Engine ECM or Machine ECM power relay is not engaging preventing CAN bus traffic between ECM's?

Anyone know how I can find an electrical schematic for this machine please? Thanks in advance.

Tony

Went back to the machine after dinner for more diagnosis. It will crank if the lap bars are down - so its really a Crank - No Start. Same error message displayed E459-2.

Found a fuse box under the cab and measured voltages present with the key off. Not sure what the rectangular devices are with the two pin connectors - maybe solid state relays?

Thanks

 

[Nige]

This is one I haven't come across before - Engine Power Mismatch. Not sure how that one occurs without something being amiss in the EPROM side of the ECM. That P/N of ECM is used on a number of different models and needs corresponding software installed in it to provide the "machine identity".
I'll send you an electrical schematic.

 

[Chrisso]

First for me also. Found this...

"At start-up, the machine ECM requests the engine ECM for the engine power rating by CAN communication. If the machine ECM does not receive a response, the E459-2 code will become active. In this situation, Cat ET will also not be able to connect to the engine ECM. This scenario is the most common occurrence of the E459-2"

Wondering if a Engine ECM or Machine ECM power relay is not engaging preventing CAN bus traffic between ECM's?

I'd say you're probably on the money. Bad earth strap, bad power or gnd to engine ECM, need to check all harness grounds on the engine block, CAN wiring, etc

 

[Nige]

G'day Chrisso. Can I ask where or how you found that explanantion.? (Still on a learning process with SIS2.0.)

 

[Chrisso]

Just PM'd ya Nige, but basically...



It's in a TIB so depends on access level I guess

 

[acolar]

Thanks Nige & Chrisso. Back to the machine with voltmeter and schematics.

 

[acolar]

Good Day
Just wanted to clarify the symptom which was actually a Crank - No Start with a Faulted indication in the Advanced Display and error E459-2.



Checked for power to engine ECM and found no voltage on the ECM Power Relay Output contact #87. 20A fuse was good
checked for power at ECM Pwr Rly coil pin 1 and Machine ECM was providing 12v to pin 1.
Determined that ECM Pwr Rly Coil pin 2 was not being grounded by Engine ECM.
Traced pin 2 circuit (C903-C59-BU18) up to Conn 4 (Round 31 pin) at rear of cab. Continuity was good to the input side of connector.
found open circuit from output side of Conn4 to engine bay Conn 28 (12 pin )
Unable to determine where exactly the open was as this is poor access to that area of the engine bay - was unable to remove ECM cover due to hoses in the way.
Built a test jumper harness to ground pin 2 of the ECM Pwr Relay coil for test purposes.
When coil pin 2 was grounded a click was heard which was relay engaging and voltage was present at relay output to Engine ECM.
Turned key on, advanced display initialized, entered access code, no fault displayed, turned key to crank engine - engine cranked and started. No errors displayed.
Root Cause of concern was an open in ECM Relay Coil ground circuit (C903-C37-BU18) somewhere between Conn4 and ECM Conn J1. This prevented communication between the Engine ECM and Machine ECM setting the E459-2 fault.


Special thanks to Nige and Chrisso for their input in helping identify the root cause.

 

[LinusC]

I'm getting the same error with my 259D FTL13797. I will check ground straps as recommended, but I am expecting I will be down the same path has acolar. Nige and Chrisso, would it be possible to get the electrical schematics for this machine? TIA

 

[LinusC]

Acolar,
Did you ever identify where and what caused the wire to fail? Rubbing harness? Fatigue? Thanks. Nice job on the diagnosis above. I think I am boat.

 

[Nige]

would it be possible to get the electrical schematics for this machine? TIA

Check your messages.

 

[chickenpik]

This is the same problem I am dealing with on my skid steer. Can anyone provide a link to the electrical schematic?

 

[Nige]

This is the same problem I am dealing with on my skid steer. Can anyone provide a link to the electrical schematic?

I'll send you one. Check your messages.

Also do a forum search for E459. It should throw up pretty much everything that has been discussed in the past, from engine ground cable connections to broken wires in engine wiring harnesses.

 

[LinusC]

Hey Chickenpik,

I have not had time to dig through mine yet. I believe I have a short in my engine harness. The majority of the harness is at the front of the engine compartment. I'm impressed that Acolar was able to ohm out to the engine ECM.

Mine has been intermittent, first I thought wiggling was getting the connection to make, but that's not working.

I'm going to wash it down, pull the Coolant tubes, check grounds. If nothing is obvious there, pull the engine harness and look for obvious damage. If I don't find anything, plan to replace the engine harness.

Will make sure I update the group if I find anything.

Good Luck.

 

[mohali85]

guys can some one share with me a schematic wire diagram for ECM , I'm having same issue

 

[ryu34]

You’re on the right path with the E459-2 code issue. Since the machine cranks with the lap bars down, the problem likely lies in the communication between ECMs, which could be due to wiring or grounding issues. Checking all grounds and ensuring secure connections should be a good next step.

 

[mohali85]

guys i have question for you , when you have this issue, are you able to communicate with ET software?
also are you able to start the engine and make it run while having this issue.

 

[Nige]

If you have an active E459 Event present the engine will not start. That’s a given.

When you say “communicate with ET” do you mean does ET recognise all the ECMs on the machine.?

 

[mohali85]

Yes I meant when you have active e459 does the Et software read all 3 ECMs ?

 

[Nige]

Yes I meant when you have active e459 does the Et software read all 3 ECMs ?

I don't think it is necessarily the case, but turning it round the other way if you have no communication with the Engine ECM over the CAN I would bet that the Machine ECM will pop up an E459 Event. The below from the System Operation.........

"When the electrical systems are initially powered up, the Machine ECM requests the Engine ECM for the engine power rating via CAN. If the machine ECM does not receive a response, the E459-2 code will become active. In this situation, Cat ET will also not be able to connect to the engine ECM."

That sounds exactly what you are up against.