case 780 impulse buy, so many questions....

[NMBlackBetty]

New member, thanks for having me!

I was at a friend's house today and noticed an old backhoe sitting out behind the barn. A case 780. Their dad used to be an equipment mechanic and when he passed, he left a bunch of equipment on the property that was abandoned that he never fixed. Long story short, he has been passed away for more than 20 years and this machine has been sitting for about 25 years. The notes he left on it were "water in oil". My friend is trying to start to clean up the mess but is beyond frustrated with it, he was having a rough day and semi-jokingly i said "heck, i'll throw you $500 for the backhoe right now no questions asked". 5 minutes later i had a bill of sale and now am the owner of the machine, but lord do i have questions. i will try and number them and post them all here if any of you kind folk can help out.

1: We have no idea what year it is, there is no serial number, it appears the plate was painted over and it was printed not engraved. The only info we have is the ROPS number (5500605), the info from the "sims" cab sticker which states; tractor model :780 , ROPS part number 1000-0240 , Gross vehicle weight 26,000lbs , and serial number 12,197. there are some numbers on the engine and other places (pictures attached) but i believe the painted over sticker would have had the original serial.

Any other way to find out what year, etc. this thing is so i can order rebuild kits and parts to get it back fixed up?


2: The machine doesn't start or run and I don't want to even try with the water in the oil. We have some smaller ag tractors with backhoes around the ranch but I have never dealt with construction equipment of this size beyond operating it. What would be the easiest way for me to get the backhoe and front loader lifted and chained so we can winch it onto a lowboy to move it to the ranch so I can start tearing into it?

3: By looking at photos for comparison, I believe it is an early 70's model with the A336 BDT, although I could be wrong. I have looked at new engines and just decided heck no! as this was an impulse buy and its been over a decade and a half since i restored our old truck, i figured i would make a pet restoration project out of this and rebuild it all myself, once i find out the year, etc, i can get manuals, and i own tools, what could go wrong right? I was thinking of doing a complete overhaul (out of frame) on the engine, i started googling Case A336 BDT rebuild kits and......... oh lord!!!!! so many options, and so many different specs, getting the feeling I have bitten off more than I can chew, but hoping to try anyway with some knowledge of others I can find online. Have any of you ever done it before? any references on where to get parts, info, make sure I buy the right stuff, warning points before I start disassembly, etc.?

4: on the topic of customizations, the plan is to tear the whole machine down, every nut and bolt, the seat is down to the metal frame, the steering wheel down to the core, wires chewed by rodents, etc. but the body is in great shape lesser the missing hood. the plan is to sandblast, and repaint the entire machine inside and out ( we have a large spray booth), new rubber all the way around, all new hoses, etc, but these old machines leave some things to be desired. Anybody ever put climate control in one of these old things like an aftermarket A/C & heat setup? Custom radio and speakers? a more modern and secure key/ignition switch? and last but most important to me, anyone ever put a custom seat in one of these? i have a bad back, bad hips, and struggle when sitting in rugged seats? i know i could just buy a new seat like what was in there, but would like to explore alternative options if anyone has any pointers?

5: Does anybody know of any YouTube videos or build journals available online from anyone who was as crazy as i am and attempted or completed a project on one of these?

6: For anybody out there who owns a case 780, what are the things you would change about the machine if you could, or things you have changed?

7: Has anyone ever put tracks on the rear of one of these? We are in a sandy desert and a loader with 2wd is rather useless because of traction issues.

8: lastly, beyond "give up before you even start, this sounds like absolute insanity" as this is just a going to try it to see if I can do it as it was so cheap to start type project to keep me busy. Is there any general advice from any of you who have restored old machinery before that you think may be helpful that you would be willing to share?

Thank you to anyone who can shed even the smallest amount of light on any of these questions. I haven't told my wife yet, but next week am going to have to explain why there is a lowboy pulling in with an old backhoe up to our shop. I could use a bit of knowledge as a confidence boost and to at least halfway sound like I know what I'm talking about.

 

[edgephoto]

Maybe some pictures of the entire machine might help with getting it identified better.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

Some more pics if it will help me narrow down on model year and other info

 

[NMBlackBetty]

 

[1693TA]

That is a 780CK model and I had one like it. Very robust machine but heavy. Very heavy in the back end so likes to bounce on the roadway. Air over hydraulic brakes that worked well on mine. Well supported by JI Case at the time but this was the very early 2000's so don't know about now with Fiat in the mix.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

That is a 780CK model and I had one like it. Very robust machine but heavy. Very heavy in the back end so likes to bounce on the roadway. Air over hydraulic brakes that worked well on mine. Well supported by JI Case at the time but this was the very early 2000's so don't know about now with Fiat in the mix.

Thanks for the info!!!

Do you think putting ballast in the front tires like a rimguard beet juice product may help with the bouncing issue? or is that just an all-around bad idea?

 

[NMBlackBetty]

Maybe some pictures of the entire machine might help with getting it identified better.

Just got them uploaded, Thanks for the advice!

 

[1693TA]

Your's may not have the problem. Mine had X-hoe and a 4 in 1 1.25yd bucket on the front and 24" rear bucket. Also on the rear dipper was a very heavy weldment for grasping logs and swinging them. My tractor was just shy of 30K in weight and not balanced proper. It ran very well and had plenty of power. If it would have had a differential lock feature would have probably kept it as it liked to slip a rear wheel easily when using it as a dozer.

Engine is a Case, transmission, and rear axle are Clark. It is a two speed forward and reverse transmission and clutch pressure is critical to maintain or it will not put power to the ground.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

Your's may not have the problem. Mine had X-hoe and a 4 in 1 1.25yd bucket on the front and 24" rear bucket. Also on the rear dipper was a very heavy weldment for grasping logs and swinging them. My tractor was just shy of 30K in weight and not balanced proper. It ran very well and had plenty of power. If it would have had a differential lock feature would have probably kept it as it liked to slip a rear wheel easily when using it as a dozer.

Engine is a Case, transmission, and rear axle are Clark. It is a two speed forward and reverse transmission and clutch pressure is critical to maintain or it will not put power to the ground.

Thanks for the info! Wonder if I can find a locking diff. to swap in.

 

[Tinkerer]

The machine serial number plate should riveted be on the side of the steering column.
You could have either a 780 or a 780CK. They look similar.
I have the service manual for the 336BDT engine.
Send me your email address in a Private Message and I will let you download it from my Google Drive.
I have some 780 parts books in .pdf format also, but a serial number of the machine is critical so you get the correct one.
Revisions were made in the same models and that resulted in different parts books for them.

If you have a 780C the serial number is on chassis under the cab door.
The image below is for a 780CK

 

[NMBlackBetty]

The machine serial number plate should riveted be on the side of the steering column.
You could have either a 780 or a 780CK. They look similar.
I have the service manual for the 336BDT engine.
Send me your email address in a Private Message and I will let you download it from my Google Drive.
I have some 780 parts books in .pdf format also, but a serial number of the machine is critical so you get the correct one.
Revisions were made in the same models and that resulted in different parts books for them.

If you have a 780C the serial number is on chassis under the cab door.
The image below is for a 780CK
View attachment 302203

Thanks tinkered!

I checked every square inch of the machine and every tag, plate, and number on it. Didn't see any other plate or tag in the cab besides the rops number but I'll check again. There is a tag ( in the first photos ) that is square and painted over on the frame on the driver side under the loader arm. Let me give it one more hard look over tomorrow and I'll send you a P.M.

Appreciate the help!

 

[Shimmy1]

Have fun, that engine is going to be a challenge. More than likely liners are pitted out from cavitation because it took until the 90s before everyone realized that good coolant with proper DCA in it prevented such problems. Also a very good bet is the counterbores will be trashed, requiring them to be machined out and inserts installed? Maybe they do it differently now? You will probably be getting very familiar with https://www.brokentractor.com/

Good luck and happy posting.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

Have fun, that engine is going to be a challenge. More than likely liners are pitted out from cavitation because it took until the 90s before everyone realized that good coolant with proper DCA in it prevented such problems. Also a very good bet is the counterbores will be trashed, requiring them to be machined out and inserts installed? Maybe they do it differently now? You will probably be getting very familiar with https://www.brokentractor.com/

Good luck and happy posting.

Thanks shimmy, appreciate the heads up! You've rebuilt a 336bdt before? Any other things to be on the look out for?

 

[Shimmy1]

My dad rebuilt a 336BD in his 680E I think 4 times, I have replaced a liner and piston in one when it dropped a valve in the gravel pit (that was a fun time). I have also rebuilt a 504BDT in a 2670 tractor. All I know is the counterbores (the bottom ledge in the block where the liner seals into) are prone to cracking, and are usually all corroded and pitted to ****. Those injectors probably don't have a prayer of coming out, and every single exhaust manifold bolt is going to break off but who cares, you'll want to put new heads on anyway (or have yours rebuilt, in any case you won't care). Be extra careful and folllw book procedure for torque when installing the water jacket and intake manifold, they are lighter aluminum and you can break the mounting holes out. Pretty simple engines, no balance shafts to deal with like newer 4 bangers.

 

[Tinkerer]

The engine oil pump has four mounting bolts.
There are shims between the pump and block that sets the crankshaft gear and pump gear clearance. The gears have timing marks on them.
it is critical to time it correctly because it controls the crankshaft vibration.
Those shims can sometimes stick to either the pump or block. Sometimes both when the pump is removed.

 

[aighead]

I'm a big know-nothing, so take that for what it's worth... I hope you like a good puzzle, because this may be one. I'm trying to do simple things with my modern machine and I'm struggling to find correct stuff. That's not said to discourage you, it sounds like you know what you are getting into.

As far as moving it, I don't think I read any suggestions, but I think If you chain/block things up, then loosen hoses connected to those implements, then likely use a comealong to tighten/raise things to where you need them and rechain and block. That'll be an adventure by itself. Stay out from under anything and beware of a swinging boom, if you loosen that line. I'd be curious if there is any pressure behind the hydraulics, if it's been sitting that long, I have no idea.

This will be fun to watch and I think you found a good website full of people that can help much more than me, as you've already found above.

 

[Vetech63]

I'm wondering what 25 years of sitting has done to the machine. There is a good chance 50% of the hydraulic hoses will need replaced once it runs. Greater chance the hydraulic cylinder seals are rotted.

Do you have much experience in these types of repairs, including the engine? Tooling?

 

[JL Sargent]

I'm wondering what 25 years of sitting has done to the machine.

Looking at these pictures, it doesn't look half bad. Get the engine running, then do hoses and cylinders as they go. Might avoid eating all this at once.

 

[Tyler d4c]

I'll be the voice of reason.
Parts will probably be difficult the case/new holland parts system is falling apart I've had trouble getting stuff
If you truly intend to do a nut and bolt resto it is going to be about 4 times more expensive then you intend.
When all Said and done you will still have a old over weight backhoe

 

[colson04]

I can appreciate the desire to restore an antique. It is a lot of work, and is cost prohibitive compared to buying a newer, more modern machine that runs. But, if you have the time, desire, and perseverance to flow through, it can be quite the rewarding project.

I own my grandfather's old John Deere 310A. It runs well, but it's nearing in on 40 years old. I can use it as it sits today, and I do regularly, but I could also go dump $10,000 into it really fast with repairs and upgrades. It needs new work lights, several hoses could be replaced, couple cylinder need re-pack, backhoe hydraulic valve bank needs resealed, the right brake doesn't work, pins and bushings could be replaced, both rear tires are worn right down, the seat pedestal needs to be rebuilt, seat could be replaced, heater replaced, needs paint, exhaust could be replaced, and the list goes on. If the engine didn't run, or transmission didn't function, I wouldn't have even considered buying it with everything else that needs attention. For under $20,000, you can buy a really nice, newer 4wd backhoe for farm and ranch work that would be more productive, and probably be supported by a dealer still.

That said, I tackle what is most pressing on my old hoe as needed. I have the new work lights and seal kit for the cylinders for when I get time. I'll work my way through it as time and funds permit.

I do look forward to watching your thread though and I hope you can find out what you have and are able to get the parts you need. Best wishes from Michigan!