Another Chinese excavator thread

[Dan Watrous]

We have a mountainous parcel about an hour from home and will need an excavator about 1-200 hours a year for improvements and maintenance. This is a hobby as my job is all computer related. My research led to probably getting a used Cat 308.
A local CAT dealer has a 2018 308 with 3500 hours for $85k. I would finance it at 6.5% interest, a $10k down payment and $1467/month for 5 years for a total of $88k.
Machinerytrader.com has 9 Cat 308s in California between $75k and $85k, which average a 2017 model for $81k and 2756 hours. Looking at the USA, there are 22 308s which average a 2017 model for $77k and 2569 hours.
Now, I just got a deal of $80k for a new XCMG XE80U at 0% interest. So $10k down and $1167/month and a total of $80k. This is a 10+ ton machine with Cummins engine and Kawasaki pump.
So a new, cheaper Chinese machine for $300 a month less or a used Cat. I worry that the Cat has likely been used by a hard working contractor until it makes sense to trade it in to prevent down-time for repairs. I cannot ever imagine needing an hours warranty repair as the years warranty would be long expired on the XCMG. It would take me more than a decade to get the wear that the Cat has now. I know "production" guys would buy the proven Cat. How about the hobby forester?

So, please tell me about XCMG

 

[skyking1]

You'll probably not get many replies. We don't see them in the field here in the PNW.

 

[MarcusZ1967]

All I've seen on the XE80U has a Kubota engine and XCMG pump.

This is direct off their web site.

 

[Kobe Steel]

Looks like a good deal to me based on the low amount of hours you are planning to do do with it. Cummins engine with a Kawasaki pump is a good combination to start with and being a new machine is also reassuring as you should not have any underlying issues on the machine waiting as a surprise. I would definitely consider this as an option. Don't be put off by a "Chinese" Brand, as China produces products for a lot of big company's nowadays. Check to see if you can get your hands on any technical manual information which may come in handy should you have any accidents on the job and require a service technician to get you back up and running.

 

[Welder Dave]

It could be a great deal until you need a specific part for it or service. New machines aren't necessarily free of issues. Does the local dealer stock many parts and how long is the wait if they don't have them?

 

[crane operator]

Buy the cat. Parts and service stinks for the chinese stuff. I'd rather have a 10 year old Cat/takeuchi/komatsu/deere with domestic parts and service support, than a brand new anything chinese.

Buy the cat.

 

[Lagwagon]

It is a conundrum Dan, I’ve found myself in a similar situation a couple of times. I looked at XCMG a couple of years ago and was fairly impressed with the overall quality but a new machine can have this illusion. For the amount of use its probably a decent option but in my opinion only if your keeping it long-term, try to sell in it in the short-term and your going to lose out big time. If you go down the 2nd hand path then you need to be very diligent in machine assessment. I would get someone with a fair bit of experience in small to medium size excavators to go over the machines for you, you can get burnt picking up other peoples abuse. Dont rush into anything, do your research, especially on Xcmg in your area, visit the dealers, ask lots of questions and keep looking around for other 2nd hand options.

 

[Jonas302]

Why would you risk that kind of money ? A used Cat or other big brand is better than a offbrand is the simple way to say it

 

[crane operator]

And while you're asking for opinions, no way would I spend $80,000 for a hobby machine that is going to see 1-200 hours per year.

I'd be buying 3 pieces of equipment for that kind of money. And likely a small excavator wouldn't be the first piece of equipment.

If we knew what the scope of your cabin/ property projects are, there are a lot of guys here who could maybe give you some advice.

Personally, if I was needing a "swiss army knife" of one machine, it would be pretty hard to beat a backhoe with a thumb and a 4 in 1 front bucket with a set of forks. Grade your road, unload pallets and dig a water line, push snow in the winter.

And if its too steep for a rubber tired machine (don't know your terrain), which maybe rules out a backhoe, I'd be buying a compact track loader with a couple of buckets and a set of forks. Maybe one grapple, and a toothed and smooth bucket. Maybe a mower for it, if that's part of the project. A post hole digger for it, if there's a pole building or some fence. I'd probably just rent the post hole digger when I needed it.

Either way, your down payment and the first years worth of payments, would buy a machine that a lot of guys would use as a every day machine. Especially if you have to borrow the money to buy it.

A 308 isn't a bad machine, its just that if I could only have one machine, a small excavator wouldn't probably be it.

 

[PeterG]

What are you really going to be doing with the machine? 1200 hours a year for " home maintenance" seems like quite a lot of hours. Do you really need a machine that big and fancy? You can do a lot with a name brand 4-6 ton machine, in the $35-60k range. Then if you need some big stumps removed, rent a full size 200 machine for the week. You can also buy a used high time full size machine in that same price range that may do what you want. Who's doing the maintenance?

 

[Dan Watrous]

Thanks all. A 40 acre square parcel on the side of a steep densely forested alpine mountain at 6000 feet near giant redwoods 10 miles away. It was logged many years ago with logging trails everywhere that are overgrown with 6-12 inch trees that I want to clear for ATV trails. It has a 1/2 mile driveway that is too steep in a switchback for a 4WD truck when it is wet that I need to fix. A few flat areas that were landings for the logging. Very isolated and no one close to care if we shoot our guns. The excavator we get will go to die there, so I wanted somewhat more power than I needed most of the time, especially for fixing the driveway. I would do maintenance and good mobile mechanics are 20 miles away. Parts are 3 hours away in LA for the XCMG and I have no deadlines, this is a hobby. A good Cat dealer is 30 miles away.

 

[CM1995]

If you want a 2018 Cat 308 with lower hours (1767) buy this one from the Cat dealer in LA (not Los Angeles) for $57,750 and have it shipped. Even if it cost $5-10K to ship you are ahead in the game.

Stay away from the Chinese machine. JMHO.

 

[Cliffy]

We have a 90’s cat 12g with 20,000hrs on it and havnt put a spanner on it except for normal wear and tear. Parts are always instock or overnight. Still valued at what we paid 15 years ago.
Also have a 07 chinese luigong loader with 5000hrs hours. Every component has been pulled or replaced at one point or another. Parts are impossible to buy or have to be custom made. Threads are different pitch or odd size (try buying a m22x2 bolt and tap) Hyd fittings are different. Its basically scrap.
The people on here have real world experience and i would recommend listening to there advice.

 

[skyking1]

What you described as the scope of work, I'd want at least 20 ton older machine with a thumb. Don't screw around with toys on a job like that.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think you'd be better off with a couple different machines. A 15 ton or better excavator and a dozer or track loader. A 160 excavator with a blade would be handy. Shouldn't have to pay $80K+ to do what you want.

 

[Tugger2]

First thing i would do is find an outfit i trust that does good repair work on older machines,that might be your biggest challenge.Machines are easy to buy,but hard to fix if your not into do it yourself. If your considering spending bucks like that,i would look for an older Hitachi 120 ,have your mechanic look it over and put a few bucks put into it. If it dosent have a good hyd.thumb on it get one for it. A brush rake ,cleanup bucket, digging bucket and maybe a quick change ripper and your set for anything. Minimum guarding should have a canopy and window guards for the bush. Some rock guards ,belly pans and side guards would be nice. I like old stuff so maybe im a bit biased. Best of luck in your endeavour.

 

[crane operator]

good mobile mechanics are 20 miles away. Parts are 3 hours away in LA for the XCMG and I have no deadlines, this is a hobby. A good Cat dealer is 30 miles away.

This right here is also why you buy the cat. The XCMG may have parts, may not have, and 3 hours away means the mechanic isn't waiting, while you run to town and get the parts, to get you back up and running. He's coming back (with another charge) whenever your parts show up.

Also, its much more likely the mobile guy is familiar with cat stuff, and there's local support by phone if he's got problems. You want to buy a Ford f-150, or a fisker? Everybody and their dog will work on the ford. Not so much the fisker.

 

[BC Placer gold]

Thanks all. A 40 acre square parcel on the side of a steep densely forested alpine mountain at 6000 feet near giant redwoods 10 miles away. It was logged many years ago with logging trails everywhere that are overgrown with 6-12 inch trees that I want to clear for ATV trails. It has a 1/2 mile driveway that is too steep in a switchback for a 4WD truck when it is wet that I need to fix. A few flat areas that were landings for the logging. Very isolated and no one close to care if we shoot our guns. The excavator we get will go to die there, so I wanted somewhat more power than I needed most of the time, especially for fixing the driveway. I would do maintenance and good mobile mechanics are 20 miles away. Parts are 3 hours away in LA for the XCMG and I have no deadlines, this is a hobby. A good Cat dealer is 30 miles away.

“6-12” trees” on old road base (probable narrow skid trails?…..) I would think a 120 or 135 (zero tail swing) would be perfect. Better reach and safety when pushing 12” trees compared to an 8 ton.

We are restricted to minimal new disturbance when clearing old roads. Our 10’ 2” wide 210 is REALLY cumbersome in these situations. I often have to track backwards on steep roads to a wide spot in order to swing the house 180 degrees (counterweight will hit either trees or the cut bank….)

Previously we had a Hitachi 135…perfect! Also had a Hitachi 120, really small tail swing on that one with the same compact 8’ 6” width.

However if space allows a 200 size will be much more productive!

Really depends on the specifics of your site, hard to evaluate without being “on the ground”. We also have a 5 ton, and have done a lot of work in the bush with that machine…sometimes surprises me what it is capable of.

 

[skyking1]

you get the same condiiton 200 class as a little machine like a 120~135 because they command the "easy moving premium"
This machine is never leaving the job. Oops a tree had to go or I had to cut a corner a little bit with some new grade to get the 200 through.
Now go drag a trailer up the road and tell me which version you prefer
If all you ever want is quad trails, then a small machine is the ticket. I bet you want your truck and RV up there too.

 

[CM1995]

you get the same condiiton 200 class as a little machine like a 120~135 because they command the "easy moving premium"

Yep - 100%.

A 4-5 year old 315 compact radius is worth the same as a 4-6 year old 325 compact radius with the same hours and condition. If we could get by with a 315 sized machine that's what I would buy but it's just too small for some precast structures. However a 315 would fit on the tag trailer.. Love to have a 315 sized machine one day.