Advice on buying my first backhoe

[frankdb]

I'm looking to buy a loader/backhoe to do some projects around the property. I think 4wd is a requirement as the ground is steep in areas and can get muddy.
Never owned one before so I'm trying to do some research and get as much advice as I can. The biggest issue is my budget. Im hoping to spend under $15k. $10k would be great. I thought about just renting don't think that would be cost effective for me.
I have found a few in my price range. Do you think I'm asking for trouble buying something so cheap? How many hours is considered "too many"?
I found a 1988 Ford 555B that's 4x4 and has newer tires and 3,700 hours. Asking price or $14k. I also found some 1970's 1980's JD and case machines for similar prices.

Are replacement/repair parts more expensive for some machines versus others? Is it going to be hard to find parts for some of these older machines?
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[frankdb]

Also, aside from FB marketplace and Craigslist, anywhere else I should be looking? I found a used equipment dealer about 50 miles away that seems to be reputable so I was thinking of just reaching out to them

 

[Delmer]

"Do you think I'm asking for trouble buying something so cheap?"
Yes.

 

[MG84]

$15K is about the minimum I'd be looking to spend for a 4wd unit, and even then it'll likely need some work. I purchase a 1989 Case 480E 4wd a couple years back for $14K and it has turned out to be a pretty good machine. I have had to repack most of the cylinders, replace a few hoses, and there are some pins/bushings that need to be replaced (the ones that were hard to grease.) I think I've spent about $2K in parts, done all the labor myself. Machine runs great though, was one owner and had under 3000hrs, I've put a few hundred hours on it with no major problems (knock on wood). We have a very good Case dealer about 1.5hrs away, they have many parts in stock and can get most anything else in a day or two. JD is good on part for things back into the '80s in my experience as well, not sure about the construction side of Ford (New Holland).

Craigslist and FB marketplace are where I find a lot of good deals, I've also bought equipment from dealers advertising on Tractor House and Machinery Trader. I prefer to do business with a dealer when I can, I realize I may pay a bit more, but they'll often stand behind a piece of equipment a little better than a private seller. Also, since I'm buying for my business it's nice to be able to just write a check for something instead of carrying around a huge pocket full of cash.

 

[frankdb]

$15K is about the minimum I'd be looking to spend for a 4wd unit, and even then it'll likely need some work. I purchase a 1989 Case 480E 4wd a couple years back for $14K and it has turned out to be a pretty good machine. I have had to repack most of the cylinders, replace a few hoses, and there are some pins/bushings that need to be replaced (the ones that were hard to grease.) I think I've spent about $2K in parts, done all the labor myself. Machine runs great though, was one owner and had under 3000hrs, I've put a few hundred hours on it with no major problems (knock on wood). We have a very good Case dealer about 1.5hrs away, they have many parts in stock and can get most anything else in a day or two. JD is good on part for things back into the '80s in my experience as well, not sure about the construction side of Ford (New Holland).

Craigslist and FB marketplace are where I find a lot of good deals, I've also bought equipment from dealers advertising on Tractor House and Machinery Trader. I prefer to do business with a dealer when I can, I realize I may pay a bit more, but they'll often stand behind a piece of equipment a little better than a private seller. Also, since I'm buying for my business it's nice to be able to just write a check for something instead of carrying around a huge pocket full of cash.

I appreciate all of the information. Is there a certain number of hours that would be considered too high? Does it make more sense to go with something newer with more hours or older with fewer hours?

 

[joe--h]

Do you have any mechanical skills? Tools?

The answer to just about anything that breaks is to be found here if you're willing to listen and follow directions.

Everything breaks eventually, just like your cars, always some damn thing waiting to die, just costs more.

Joe H

 

[frankdb]

I'd like to think that I'm pretty mechanically inclined. I do have tools but imagine I'd need larger sized sockets/wrenches for much of the work. I enjoy wrenching on cars/motorcycles but have never worked on a diesel engine or farm equipment or any sort of hydraulics...other than brakes.

 

[oarwhat]

Can't go just on hours. A 1000 hour machine poorly maintained will be in worse shape than a 3000 hour well maintained machine.

 

[rumblecloud]

I bought my first backhoe this past April with much the same experience as you - none.

I spent 24K for a 97-98 Ford New Holland 555E 4WD from a local "reputable" dealer. Within the first week I replaced a hose. Two weeks ago I repacked a hydraulic cylinder. Things will break no matter how much you spend. Yes you will need tools. It would be helpful if there was a hydraulics repair shop near by for replacing/making new hoses.

If you have never operated one, watch some vids and visit the local dealer you mentioned to get some stick time - it's exhilarating, a little scary, but necessary.

Choosing between a private owner and a dealer is a toss up. That's where your knowledge comes in - what to look for, how it operates, etc.

There are a ton of experienced, knowledgeable people here who will help you every step of the way - they helped me a ton. Take your time ask questions and research, research, research.

Hope to see you around here a lot during and after your purchase.
R

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums fbd! Glad to have you.

If you buy a 4x4 backhoe for $15K be prepared and have on hand at least $5-10K in cash to get it in operational shape. Everything about yellow iron is expensive and the bigger the iron the more expensive it is.

 

[Swetz]

I appreciate all of the information. Is there a certain number of hours that would be considered too high? Does it make more sense to go with something newer with more hours or older with fewer hours?

These are two very good questions.

About 5 years ago, I was in the very same position as you. I asked on this forum about hours, and was told by many, on this forum, that the hours are no where near as important as the condition. In other words, a guy that bought the machine, jumped in and put 3k hours on the machine, and no maintenance is worse than a guy that bought the machine, put 10k hours on it but serviced it and greased it as specified, with good quality parts. In the end, the the 10k machine is still a good, tight, reliable machine, while the 3k machine is clapped out.

This is where you come in. You (or someone you hire) need to make the determination if the machine was taken care of or just beat to death.

As for year:
If the intended purpose is to make a living from the production of the machine, newer is better. If you are looking to use it on your property, and production is not as important, an older model is better, when considering cost of ownership.

What is old, and what is newer?

Another topic that has been discussed on here. For the production machine, I would consider ~2017 and up as newer. For home use, I would look at the timeframe the machine went computerized, and get one just prior. For example, I own a New Holland 675E, the machine is the last iteration prior to the computerized engine controlls. What does this mean? I can fix it without some fancy high dollar manufacturer's specific scan tool.

Also, usually (not always in the crazy world of today) parts availability is less on the older machines. Some manufacturers dont take care of a customer that ownes an older unit vs one that ownes a late model unit.

I own a New Holland, but if you purchase a 555B (which is an excellent unit), be ready for some parts to be "no longer available". Part of this problem is that Ford is no longer in existance, and New Holland isnt so good about some of the older Ford parts. That said, there are some aftermarket parts available for some of the popular older machines.

Bottom line, machine prices are through the roof right now, so finding a good 4x4 machine in your budget will be tough. My recomendation would be to keep saving, while looking, and if you are able to find that older machine that is well taken care of in your budget, grab it. If not, your budget increases and opens you up to more machines.

 

[frankdb]

Thank you again for all the replies. This is great information. Are there particular brands or models that I should stay away from? Or any that are known to be super reliable?

 

[NH575E]

Each situation and machine will be different. There are no guarantees! I take that back. An older machine will be guaranteed to need service and repairs at some point, even if it works good when you get it.

I began my search 7 years ago. I was on a junk machine budget but I wanted a cab since I live in the south. The machine I ended up with I bought off eBay and had shipped.

The seller said it was a good running machine that was ready to work. I asked how many hours, leaks, and were the brakes good. His replies were about 3000 hours, no leaks, brakes are good. It arrived being nothing as advertised and wouldn't even run 5 minutes. Fluid was spewing out the right stabilizer and the face on the gauge cluster was broken with the hour meter obviously pried to read about 3000 hours and not working due to the damage. NO BRAKES!

I've been a mechanic/machinist all my life so I was up for the challenge. It took me a couple of weeks to sort out the running and get the cylinder rebuilt. Both were a learning experience with multiple challenges. I even had to machine the gland nut on the cylinder to get the listed repair kit to fit. The seller said it needed a compressor. He failed to mention the AC compressor WAS MISSING. Some of the wiring was bypassed and butchered but most of the stock harness was still there. I have replaced several hundred dollars worth of hoses but haven't scratched the surface on replacing all of them. I have only rebuilt both stabilizers and the crowd cylinder. All have been a challenge to find the correct parts for. Finding and replacing the seals in some cases requires new pistons and gland nuts. I have been able to work around those but at a cost in down time while I figured out a work around.

Jump ahead 7 years I have a fairly reliable machine with a smooth running engine and cold AC. Still no brakes and no plans to fix them because of the cost and difficulty in tearing down the rear axle.

I stopped adding but I'm probably in it for around 18 grand. Todays prices would have put it all out of my budget.

 

[HarleyHappy]

Meh, for 12 to 15k around here, if you’re patient should get you a homeowner machine that can work. It will need seals and hoses eventually.
Right now there’s a couple here on CL for that or a little more.
For that money though, I would stay away from a dealer unless you are completely sure they are honest as no one will warranty a machine that old.
Try to stay away from the computers also.

 

[Allan M]

Hi FB: I bought my compact tractor loader/backhoe without every trying one. Shame on me. I could have bought one size up and then I wouldn't be looking to sell my current tractor/backhoe now after 6 years of ownership. I outgrew it's grading capability. Before I bought an excavator I checked in with the experienced operators on this site. They advised me to rent an excavator before I bought one. I did. Then when I purchased an excavator I knew exactly what I needed short and long term. So, I'm suggesting that you first scope out your projects, rent a machine, and see how many projects (different applications) you can knock out in a week to 10 days. That way, you'll learn the capability of a certain size of machine (yes drop a couple of thousands of dollars in rental fees but money well spent), not worry about machine condition, and come out the wiser. Then, when you shop you'll be able to laser focus on the machine that fits your sweet spot and spend your money wisely. I originally bought a LS J2023H tractor/backhoe, the smallest of the compact tractors (not a subcompact) because of backhoe break-force and loader lift capability. My issue is having cut about 1/2 mile of roads on hilly property with my excavator I need a heavier rig, with a heavier box scraper with rear hydraulics to do the grading. Net, net, rent a machine and get some operator experience. Then you'll know if you need a larger, smaller or same-sized machine. Best of luck in your quest.

 

[frankdb]

Hi FB: I bought my compact tractor loader/backhoe without every trying one. Shame on me. I could have bought one size up and then I wouldn't be looking to sell my current tractor/backhoe now after 6 years of ownership. I outgrew it's grading capability. Before I bought an excavator I checked in with the experienced operators on this site. They advised me to rent an excavator before I bought one. I did. Then when I purchased an excavator I knew exactly what I needed short and long term. So, I'm suggesting that you first scope out your projects, rent a machine, and see how many projects (different applications) you can knock out in a week to 10 days. That way, you'll learn the capability of a certain size of machine (yes drop a couple of thousands of dollars in rental fees but money well spent), not worry about machine condition, and come out the wiser. Then, when you shop you'll be able to laser focus on the machine that fits your sweet spot and spend your money wisely. I originally bought a LS J2023H tractor/backhoe, the smallest of the compact tractors (not a subcompact) because of backhoe break-force and loader lift capability. My issue is having cut about 1/2 mile of roads on hilly property with my excavator I need a heavier rig, with a heavier box scraper with rear hydraulics to do the grading. Net, net, rent a machine and get some operator experience. Then you'll know if you need a larger, smaller or same-sized machine. Best of luck in your quest.

Thanks for the recommendation. I looked around and there's not much available to rent nearby. At least not the size im looking for. I found a place that rents Cat equipment but it's over an hour away. I'm assuming they'd be able to deliver...for a price

 

[Allan M]

I still think it's worth calling CAT and finding out the delivery charge. I wouldn't shy way from $200 each way... You didn't say if you had any time on a backhoe (experience using one). There is a learning curve to be able to finesse the controls. My backhoe has 2k break force at the bucket. This is not enough to break oak tree roots more than 1.5" in diameter. Note: I have never tried a root hook. So, taking out trees I've got to dig a fairly large hole and chop the roots with an ax. It's labor intensive. Guys on this site will tell you the minimum break force you need for say 2" hardwood roots. My excavator has 11k break force at the bucket and I can simply muscle most trees down with little attention to digging and cutting all roots. Depending on the kind of use you intend a smaller tractor/backhoe might be fine. I have rocky soil and struggled sometimes with my backhoe digging ditches or widening general areas for landscaping...but it really did the trick. But I don't make living using a backhoe. A professional operator wouldn't use something my size because it's not cost effective time wise. I'm an extremely mechanical guy. But I don't want to get into hydraulics or diesel engine repair. I just paid a mechanic to give my excavator a 3000 hour service. I could have done it all but it would have taken exponentially longer and I learned a bunch talking with the mechanic while he worked through the machine. You might be able to post an ad on Craigslist and see if someone will rent you their backhoe for a week or two...and might be close by. My fundamental argument here based on my mistakes is to get machine experience before you buy if possible. And, buy a machine from some nutcase like me that treats it like his Ferrari, keeps it in a barn, and hasn't put 5000 hours on it. Also, as someone noted, cash is king. If you are going to spend $15k. I'd have that money on hand in crisp $100 bills. You might find someone that needs money quickly and will make you a good deal since you have cash in hand. I bought my excavator about $12k under market by getting money to a professional operator the same day. He was trying to buy two smaller units from a dealer offering a special price and needed cash immediately.

 

[frankdb]

I don't have any experience operating any sort of heavy equipment. We had a very old MF tractor with backhoe for a short time but sold it. I do remember that the backhoe was a pain in the ass to operate as it had a ton of levers...but that machine was from the 50's...I imagine technology and controls have come a long way since then.
I very much appreciate all the replies. I'm going to bite the bullet and rent a machine for a few days to get a feel for it as well as see if it's sized properly for the jobs I'm doing. Like Allan M, my soil is incredibly rocky. Digging anything buy hand basically requires a pickaxe. So I do want to make sure I get something powerful enough.

 

[Delmer]

70-80-90's backhoes will be smoother, faster and more powerful than a farm tractor with add on backhoe. You're taking a big risk with any used heavy equipment, but I don't see anything wrong with going for a decent priced backhoe, it's hard to lose more than half what you pay for it even if the engine or trans or hydraulics blow up, it's still got parts left. Backhoes (tractor loader backhoes) don't vary that much in size and power compared to excavators (track hoes). You can buy excavators from lawn tractor size right up to mining shovel size. Cat, Case, Ford are all similar size for the same era. JD makes a smaller 110 and 210 that you rarely see, and a bigger 710 that's almost as rare, at something like 25-28K pounds. I guess case makes a six cylinder backhoe also, but those two are oddities.

 

[NH575E]

If you rent something spring for any extra insurance they offer so you are not responsible for any damage.

I rented a mini ex before buying my backhoe. It bore no resemblance to the hoe in power or operation. It was very easy to use and get use to. It had two joysticks. I wasted a couple hours trying to dig out a large sweetgum with it and gave up. The hoe I bought got it out even with me being a new operator but I worked on it another 2 or 3 hours. I could probably have a similar stump out in half the time now.

I don't think I would want an old 4 stick hoe but I have never operated one. Wish my hoe had the joysticks the mini ex and newer hoes have but the two handles work okay. I run between 1500-1800 RPMs to make operation smoother. Higher than that tends to be too jerky for my liking.