2005 International 4300 Electrical gremlin

[Bearhead]

Have an '05 Non-Maxxforce 4300 with DT466. Was driving to park in the shop and it died completely, check elec sys on cluster. No crank etc. newer batteries. I went through all the obvious wiring connectors/grounds and battery connections searching for possible issues, but all good. Removed the BCM and peeked inside but nothing obvious. If I leave batteries hooked up and key out of ignition, it acts weird, headlights turn on, radio on etc. Cluster will sometimes stay lit with key out.
I dont have a scanner and the local dealer has been less than stellar in troubleshooting before with another issue. Any input is appreciated.

 

[mekanik]

Can you post the last eight of the VIN or PM it to me. The last time I had a bizarre problem like what you are experiencing it was caused bu corrosion in the under hood fuse box. There is a couple maxi fuses and some grounds on the firewall above the fuse box. Make sure all is well there. There are fuse links on the starter solenoid positive post make sure the nut is tight. The body controller has a stud at the top where the battery power connects make sure the nut is tight. Load test the body controller power supply with a headlight or something similar

 

[Bearhead]

C

ok, vin 05H699535 I pulled fuses in the box and all they are fine, didnt dive under the box. I removed and cleaned up the grounds and maxi-fuse block connections to no avail. maxi fuse is good.

 

[mekanik]

Check the relay connections in the box as well. There is a fuse box on the right side of the dash. Swap the ignition power relay with another relay. Are the lights in the centre panel switches flashing when you switch them on?

 

[mekanik]

If you turn the key on and hit the cruise on and cruise resume buttons at the same time you should be able to read body fault codes in the instrument LCD display. The push button on the instrument panel will scroll through them. Codes ending in A are active ending in P are inactive.

 

[Bearhead]

Ok, will check that in a bit. I had swapped relays and checked fuses behind dash on passenger side. Thxs

 

[Simon C]

Seen a similar one that the mechanic started to flex harnesses and found a rub through spot on side of frame. Hope you find it.
Simon C

 

[Bearhead]

ok, here are following active codes
150:2 2023_14A
1:3 613_14A
255:254 639_14A
228:254 639_14A

Start relay clicks, but no crank. Swapped relays with same result. Fuses Ok. Dash saying check elec system

 

[mekanik]

The starter relay in the under hood fuse box clicks but it does not crank? It should crank. Can you make sure there is power on the starter solenoid and the battery ground cable at the starter has a good connection.

 

[mekanik]

This is what the first code means:

​

2023​

14​

150 or 250​

2​

N/A​

Engine Controller not communicating with the primary EGC (150) or secondary EGC (250) Loss of communication in excess of 10 seconds. Drivetrain J1939 data link.

ECG is the electronic gauge cluster. The loss of communication could be low voltage at one of the modules. A failed module or a data link problem.

The second is HVAC Control Head mode control fault. The third and forth are for loss of communication with the water in fuel sensor and the wait to start signal

Here is a link to the wiring manual for your truck:

https://www.international.com/-/media/Project/TratonGroup/International/International/Vehicles/Resources/Tem-Body-Builder/Body-Resources-Media/CIRCUIT-DIAGRAMS-DOCUMENTS/0000017581.pdf?rev=73cbacc2e45f4058ba0ebc8af5bfb781

You need to scan it to see if there are engine and transmission data link communication faults.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I just recently had a situation like this on Cummins chassis. All the right relays clicked when they should have. Pulled all relays and tested them even. At my wits end, probed the output of the ECM power circuits directly out of the fuse box...no feed. Pulled the relay out just a hair, and I did. The female terminal in the fuse panel had lost tension. As a temporary "fix", I added a slight jog to the spade on the relay.

 

[Simon C]

When pushing in a relay, very hard to feel if one receiving receptacle pin is loose. I like to tighten them all up a little. If one is loose, you have problems.
Simon C

 

[stinky64]

I just recently had a situation like this on Cummins chassis. All the right relays clicked when they should have. Pulled all relays and tested them even. At my wits end, probed the output of the ECM power circuits directly out of the fuse box...no feed. Pulled the relay out just a hair, and I did. The female terminal in the fuse panel had lost tension. As a temporary "fix", I added a slight jog to the spade on the relay.

Have also seen where terminals have pushed almost all the way out of the panel after an overheat/incorrect install barely making contact, definitely a head scratcher.

 

[mekanik]

Bearhead have you made any progress on this?

 

[Bearhead]

Bearhead have you made any progress on this?

Thanks for the chase up and info, I am going to dive into it this week. i will go through relays etc again, and check/bypass clean power to engine ecu and BCM. What flummoxes me is that some of the systems will turn themselves on when the key is out(radio, lights etc). Appreciate all the input, will let you know what I find(or dont)

 

[Simon C]

For stuff to turn on with the key out, you have ashort going into another circuit. If you leave every thing off and hook a meter to battery Negative and the other lead at a light that comes on by itself with the meter on the incoming side of bulb, with meter in record mode start flexing harness and when meter beeps you have found area that power went to lamp by itself. Sharp corners of frame are possible locations, or where harness crosses a bolt head or something sharp. If nothing makes meter come on, try tapping on relays to find source of uncontrolled power. Hope it helps. Any questions fire away.
Simon C

 

[Bearhead]

For stuff to turn on with the key out, you have ashort going into another circuit. If you leave every thing off and hook a meter to battery Negative and the other lead at a light that comes on by itself with the meter on the incoming side of bulb, with meter in record mode start flexing harness and when meter beeps you have found area that power went to lamp by itself. Sharp corners of frame are possible locations, or where harness crosses a bolt head or something sharp. If nothing makes meter come on, try tapping on relays to find source of uncontrolled power. Hope it helps. Any questions fire away.
Simon C

ok, thats great help. I have to catch it when it turns something on. i may attach a piezo the system that has turned on and go around flexing harnesses/relays etc

 

[mekanik]

Is the radio turning on or is the radio display illuminating with the radio off?

 

[Bearhead]

Is the radio turning on or is the radio display illuminating with the radio off?

The radio turned on(playing music) on night. i assume I switched the truck off with it still on. it has a memory continuous +VE input, but main power runs off the ignition/BCM

 

[mekanik]

There are two fuses for the radio in the in cab fuse box.
The illumination comes from the instrument panel.