160clc problems. Hydraulic stall.

Been working on my 160clc
Just went through the whole machine this spring, used it around the shop to dig a bit, and had it working great.
The hydraulics were a bit slow on the main lift at the end of the winter and I did a pump setup as per the manual when we got it back and it has never worked so darn good.
Pulled it into the shop to finish it up, did a few nuts and bolts, went to pull it out, and the hydraulics put a crazy load on the engine.
You can stall it with the main boom, and the dipper. They seem to get real hot real fast.
Oddly enough not at the pump, the pump isn't as hot as the reservoir.
The only other thing was the batteries died before we pulled it in. Not sure what difference that would make.

I plugged it into the mpdr and it shows no codes, and I don't see anything out of the ordinary?
No flashing light on the dash for engine codes.

What are the Pump1 and Pump2 delivery pressures with arm in function over relief at full engine speed ?
Also what is the engine speed in P mode with throttle dial at max position with no load ?

A good place to start would be to check the system relief setting. If the system relief is set to high or not opening the circuit reliefs will open and that will cause the overheating issue and excessive engine pulldown since pump discharge ( high flow ) instead of load sense pressure ( very low flow ) is regulating the pressure. The pressure on the boom, arm, bucket and propel should all be the same. ( 4,950psi / 34.2mpa ) The circuit reliefs on those functions are set 500psi or so higher than the system relief setting. The swing crossover reliefs are set 500-600psi lower than system pressure for smoother starting and stopping and the auxiliary pressure should be set for the attachment being used. You might want to go through the pump regulator adjustment again and make sure the individual pump pulldown is correct. If you have a 2'' or so bucket pin you can put between the sprockets and the track frame so you can stall the tracks one at a time and both together it's easier to set the individual pump pulldown ( horsepower regulator ) than using the swing and bucket for individual adjustments. I don't have the exact numbers but individual pump pulldown shouldn't be over 125rpms less than high idle and combined pulldown shouldn't be over 200rpms less than high idle. I hope this helps. Those pumps are pretty finicky and will cause heating issues if the HP adjustments are to aggressive.

It may be set high, I will go back through. I also already did a adjustment on the main relief, but it's worth going back to and redoing. I may take it out and inspect it while I'm at it.
I had a hard time getting the tracks to track straight with the engine pulldown. I ended up not exactly setting it by rpm pulldown, and more until the tracks felt good, and had appropriate pulldown.
Right now it's on both sides of the pump. I first thought I could have been having a problem with one of the adjustments on the pump, but both tracks almost stall the engine.
One thing I noticed is there's no lag between pulling the lever and the fast movement.
Normally if I pull the main lift, the hydraulics start slow, the engine revs, and it speeds up to full speed (almost all at once)
It seems like the second I pull the lever to full the hydraulics are wide open, there's no lag, and it stalls the engine. Almost as if the pumps are both stroking really fast, or already at full stroke.

So this morning I checked the system pressure, something like 35mpa
I then disassembled and inspected the system relief and saw no issues, I then adjusted it downward, and brought the system pressure down to 25mpa
Still have the same issue.
I can slowly pull a lever and the engine will stay running, but if I pull a lever fast it will kill it. I also dialed back the engine pulldown screws on the pump a half turn (as I assume I'm going to have to do a full pump setup anyways)

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

So this morning I checked the system pressure, something like 35mpa

Click to expand...

35 mpa is right on spec.

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

The hydraulics were a bit slow on the main lift at the end of the winter and I did a pump setup as per the manual when we got it back and it has never worked so darn good.
Pulled it into the shop to finish it up, did a few nuts and bolts, went to pull it out, and the hydraulics put a crazy load on the engine.

Click to expand...

The way you describe the problem as only appeared when finishing up some odds and ends, sounds like the engine is suddenly down on horespower. Any chance a hose split/ cracked before or after the intercooler ? or fuel supply hose from fuel tank got pinched ?
If push comes to shove, a turbo boost pressure test would prove if the engine is down on power or not.

Anything is possible. Last time I had a air loss problem it blew black smoke like wild. Doesn't seem to have that issue. But not saying I couldn't have any other versions of hp issue. I checked the fuel pressure at the filter head. It seems good. I run a electric lift pump, it's brand new aswell.
The only thing that was really odd was after the batteries died, I boosted it. And the rpm dial would not work. I charged the batteries and started it up, worked fine.
Checked the voltage at the fuse panel, have 28v

Would there be any test, that would say steer me in the direction of the engine or the pump?

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

Would there be any test, that would say steer me in the direction of the engine or the pump?

Click to expand...

A failed Turbo boost pressure test would indicate low engine horsepower.
See procedure in 2 screenshots below. Before doing the test be sure to adjust the main relief back to the original setting of 35 mpa.
.

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Today I had another quick look, think I made some headway.
I tied a boost gauge into the cab, although all I had on hand was the tiny hose from the ether injector, it may not be very accurate but I was able to steadily read about 9lbs on the gauge any time I could feather the hydraulics to not stall the engine.
Somehow in reading and staring at the pressures again I stumbled upon that the number 2 on the screen (pump one pressure) reads higher than pump 2 with the pilots on. About 500 psi, the same psi as the pilot pressure. (Both 1.1 with pilots off. 3 or something on just pump 1 with pilots on)
I looked to see what ties directly from the pilot to the pump thinking I could be having some type of crossover from my main pump to pilot pump, and the speed sense solenoid is right there. I removed, disassembled and cleaned it. Reinstalled with no change. I disconnected it, and the machine works what seems like perfectly.
Fast, smooth revs up when it's supposed to, seems to work flawless.
I tested, has 28v across the terminals.
Ohms read the same as the valve beside it. I don't see continuity to ground with the key off.
I'm Done for the day on it now. But I think that's another step forward.
Either both sides should go up with the pilot pressure engaged, or both should stay low is my thought.
Here's a quick video of what I'm talking about.

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

Been working on my 160clc
Just went through the whole machine this spring, used it around the shop to dig a bit, and had it working great.
The hydraulics were a bit slow on the main lift at the end of the winter and I did a pump setup as per the manual when we got it back and it has never worked so darn good.
Pulled it into the shop to finish it up, did a few nuts and bolts, went to pull it out, and the hydraulics put a crazy load on the engine.
You can stall it with the main boom, and the dipper. They seem to get real hot real fast.
Oddly enough not at the pump, the pump isn't as hot as the reservoir.
The only other thing was the batteries died before we pulled it in. Not sure what difference that would make.

I plugged it into the mpdr and it shows no codes, and I don't see anything out of the ordinary?
No flashing light on the dash for engine codes.

Click to expand...

Sounds like the pumps may be staying on high pressure all the time. Since you just did a pump setup, I'd double-check the pump control settings, pressure sensors, and any solenoids involved in pump regulation. If the boom and dipper are loading the engine hard and heating the oil fast, something could be causing the system to deadhead or stroke the pumps fully.

The dead batteries might have reset a calibration or exposed an electrical issue, but I'd start with pump control and pilot pressure checks. No codes doesn't always mean everything is happy.

Right. I also have no codes on the mpdr as in the photo. I will pull the access panel and check manually with the blinking light on the PVC controller. maube it does have codes and I'm not seeing them on the laptop.

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

I tied a boost gauge into the cab, although all I had on hand was the tiny hose from the ether injector, it may not be very accurate but I was able to steadily read about 9lbs on the gauge any time I could feather the hydraulics to not stall the engine.

Click to expand...

At 9 psi boost sounds like the engine horsepower is ok.
When you performed the Pump regulator adjustment-engine pull down procedure did you follow as written in the Operation and test manual TM1932 ?

You should be able to see the speed sense solenoid valve output pressure (item #27) with the laptop shown in screenshot below.
As the engine is pulling down and attempting to stall, the PVC decreases the voltage to the speed sense solenoid coil and the speed sense valve output pressure increases to what I would think would be approximately 250- 350 psi. You could confirm the laptop data with a guage teed into the solenoid valve output hose.

Diesel Dave said:

At 9 psi boost sounds like the engine horsepower is ok.
When you performed the Pump regulator adjustment-engine pull down procedure did you follow as written in the Operation and test manual TM1932 ?

Click to expand...

Yes I have that manual and followed it.
But wondering if the speed sense was acting up off and on at the time, causing it hard to dial in the pulldown.
I will have to go back and redo it, after I figure out what's happening with the speed sense.



I never looked at the speed sense on my program but I will go back and check to see what I can see on Monday.

I had an old hitachi, any problems with the wiring or the pump sensors and it would go to full stroke. Is the Deere the same way?

I would like to make a suggestion. Go back and adjust the individual pulldowns. Set them closer to the 2050 rpm rather than the 2030 rpm. Definitely adjust them by stalling tracks and not using the bucket/swing. Then ignore the combined stall adjustment. Does the machine still want to stall after those adjustments are made?

mg2361 said:

I would like to make a suggestion. Go back and adjust the individual pulldowns. Set them closer to the 2050 rpm rather than the 2030 rpm. Definitely adjust them by stalling tracks and not using the bucket/swing. Then ignore the combined stall adjustment. Does the machine still want to stall after those adjustments are made?

Click to expand...

I would have to do it with the speed valve unplugged or any time I pull a lever it will completely stall the engine.
Or are you suggesting dial them back until it works with the speed valve plugged in?

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

I would have to do it with the speed valve unplugged or any time I pull a lever it will completely stall the engine.
Or are you suggesting dial them back until it works with the speed valve plugged in?

Click to expand...

To add to this. It did work great for a couple of days of work after the pump setup.

imgonnadigtochynaa said:

Or are you suggesting dial them back until it works with the speed valve plugged in?

Click to expand...

Yes, I would dial them out and start over. If it stalls with them dialed out, then there is another issue that needs to be determined.

I dialed them out and started over.
With the speed solenoid plugged in, and the tracks pinned.
Even with the screws way out, it puts lots of load on the engine. I set them to where I pull the lever and it would bog down and kinda settle back up to the 2050.

With the sensor unplugged I can get it to just run right to 2050 steady as can be.

With the sensor plugged in, and the pulldown set to 2050 with the tracks pinned, I can run it for 10 minutes and the hydraulics are screaming hot. It performs terrible.

I pulled the panel behind the seat, and checked the controller for blinking red light codes.
When I first jumped the wire it started flashing code numbers before I was ready to read them. I think it flashed every code in the book.
I shut it off and tried again, can't get any codes out of it. Ran it for a while , still can't get any codes. Flashes red, attach the jumper just goes blank. I went back through and looked at every sensor on the diagnostic and they all seem to be reading ( changing up and down anyways not sure of a baseline)