Mulching - "The Daily Grind"

[treemuncher]

From what I understand, Fecon has re-badged a number of different manufacturer's machines. I have yet to own a mulcher or carrier for mulching that has not stress cracked somewhere. Although I still have 1, Fecon is not my go-to brand when in the market. I did have the Fecon FTX140 (Rayco C140) and once I installed the fish plate kit, I never had any other issues with cracks. For me, it was a good money maker that got me to where I am

Yes, this machine model has been sold through the Fecon network but not this particular one. The track frame axle has been welded to the main frame as per factory service bulletin - no problems there once I completed that. The track frames continue to give me grief. There will be a number of dog bones welded in next time the frames come off.

 

[Tones]

Is that an oscillating frame? If not it may have a twist in it causing the front left to wear.
The Rayco c140 had a 2.5 inch twist in the fame with the left front and right rear rollers wearing. Funny thing Rayco didn't charge any more for it.

 

[Pony]

Surely that has to be design flaws to have cracked frames?
I imagine a mulcher get a rough life, but that's what it's sold as, so shouldn't it be designed to handle it?

 

[Tones]

Surely that has to be design flaws to have cracked frames?
I imagine a mulcher get a rough life, but that's what it's sold as, so shouldn't it be designed to handle it?

I can't say about other brands but Rayco have serious manufacturing defects that they wouldn't acknowledge. I with the help of others figured the twisted frame was a result of robotic welding. The weld started in 1 corner and was continuous back to the start. Even though it was welded in a gig the heat distortion caused it to spring when released. The fuel and hydraulic tank were more than likely welded in at this time hence why they cracked also.
There were plenty more defects of poor design, workmanship and QC.
Ain't hindsight a wonderful thing.

 

[mowingman]

Surely that has to be design flaws to have cracked frames?
I imagine a mulcher get a rough life, but that's what it's sold as, so shouldn't it be designed to handle it?

The early Fecons, built by Rayco, were too rigid in the frame area. There was no flex at all from the head, stress was transfered directly to the arms and the crawler frame. One of the worst frame cracks we experienced, was a crack in a weld between the frame and the fuel tank. The frame made up a portion of the fuel tank, and flexing was not a good idea at that weld. One day I noticed the cab was flooding with diesel fuel. It only took the mechanic a short time to discover the cause. I believe Fecon warrantied that repair for the dealer, as well as several other frame cracks that occurred. Fecon also ate the cost of several track motors. I don't know how the dealer , or Fecon, made out on our lease of those machines over more than 2 years. I am glad we did not own them.

 

[mowingman]

I can't say about other brands but Rayco have serious manufacturing defects that they wouldn't acknowledge. I with the help of others figured the twisted frame was a result of robotic welding. The weld started in 1 corner and was continuous back to the start. Even though it was welded in a gig the heat distortion caused it to spring when released. The fuel and hydraulic tank were more than likely welded in at this time hence why they cracked also.
There were plenty more defects of poor design, workmanship and QC.
Ain't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Not to mention air cooled Deutz diesel engines that did not cool, A/C units that had continuous problems, hydraulic lines that were way under the machine and liked to break on a regular basis, exhaust parts that fell apart and caused wiring harnesses to burn up, and on and on.

 

[Tones]

Yep to all of that except the Deutz engine, mine had the Deere.

 

[mowingman]

Yep to all of that except the Deutz engine, mine had the Deere.

Had both. The one with the Deere is the one the exhaust clamps failed and let hot air burn up the wiring harness. Kept the dealership's mechanic busy for about a week. Meanwhile they brought us another one to destroy.

 

[Tones]

And that **** rubber elbow on the inlet side of the turbo which would split on the engine side where it couldn't be seen.

 

[treemuncher]

I finally got my idlers and some rollers in yesterday. Had to go OEM and pay through the nose. Shortly after diagnosing all of the frame cracks, I made a mistake with a long lathe chip and required 6 stitches in my left thumb. No heavy work for a few weeks while waiting to heal up so welding finally got started on the frame yesterday. I had to pull the idler spring to do the repairs and I noticed the idler track had some wear - time to build that back up.

Idler channel edge cleaned up with grinder and copper buss bar clamped to the bottom of the edge to be repaired. For those that don't know, building up and edge is easier with a copper bar clamped to the edge. The two metals will not fuse when arc welding and you can flow the steel over the copper.


After a couple of passes with a stick. Way too windy (and cold) today to even think of the MIG.


Looks like my phone did not take the final pic after I detailed it with the grinder. Tested the spacing after building up both sides with a wooden test block. Some minor grinding of the face and good to go. Ready for the next repair.

 

[Tones]

Did you try getting idlers from Komatsu? The only undercarriage parts I had to by OEM was the sprockets at $800 each plus freight. Before assembly check the bolt that goes through the spring, they have a habit of snapping.

 

[treemuncher]

Did you try getting idlers from Komatsu? The only undercarriage parts I had to by OEM was the sprockets at $800 each plus freight. Before assembly check the bolt that goes through the spring, they have a habit of snapping.

I'm working on my Lamtrac. I was looking for Berco front idlers or other that would match. Never thought to try Komatsu as it has a Deere 450 undercarriage but not typical dozer idlers - more like excavator style slotted guide rails. I wound up getting Berco idlers via OEM. My original Berco bottom rollers still had a lot of life left after 2,500-3,000 hrs. The replacement ITR rollers are about shot at 1,500 hours with 4 completely trashed and a few others not looking too good. I purchased the last 6 Berco bottom rollers and 2 carrier rollers that they had on hand. I would rather purchase longer lasting parts than put in more labor.

Trashed OEM front idler (Berco) with 4,500 hours on it.


Took another couple of pics of the completed temporary repairs that will allow me to knock out a few pressing jobs prior to tearing down right track frame for a more complete welding & reinforcement job. I am thinking about a piece of 1" threaded rod installed just in front of the reinforcement piece that I installed. The cracks always propagate from the spreading of the bottom rails and a tie bar should allow a preload to alleviate that condition. A quick couple of holes with the Mag-drill and some A193 threaded rod @ 105ksi yield strength should do the job. 1" threaded rod should be over 80ksi yield strength. Not my finest welding job but it was limited access, cold and windy. Everything was preheated to chill-chase the metal prior to welding.

This is the same as photo from post #79 pic #1 after the repair has been completed. The more rearward cracks have since been addressed too.


Finished build-up on upper rail on left side. See post #90 pics 1 & 2 for the before and during pics. You can see where the copper bar left a flat bottom edge on the finished build-up. The bottom of the left side did not have enough wear to justify a bead. The right side took most of the beating and took a lot more build up.



Certainly not my prettiest work but the gaping crack was veed out, clamped tight, built up and ground flat prior to the reinforcement plate being set in place. It should get me through a few jobs if I don't put it into any really extreme conditions right away. Yep, these kinds of repairs really suck but if you run a mulcher, you better plan on it. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - these machines dish out and take a hell of a beating!

 

[Tones]

Just for future reference, Komatsu used to make Berco parts under license but apparently had a falling out. They now make their own track parts based on Berco with improvements. To give you some idea the idlers on the C140 from Berco were good for 1000hrs, changed to Komatsu and were still good with 4000hrs use but cost 2X the price which made them cheaper overall.
Checking the numbers on the original idlers they were made for a 4ton Volvo excavator.

 

[treemuncher]

Just for future reference, Komatsu used to make Berco parts under license but apparently had a falling out. They now make their own track parts based on Berco with improvements. To give you some idea the idlers on the C140 from Berco were good for 1000hrs, changed to Komatsu and were still good with 4000hrs use but cost 2X the price which made them cheaper overall.
Checking the numbers on the original idlers they were made for a 4ton Volvo excavator.

Thanks! I never knew that about Komatsu and Berco. That's what forums are all about. Pay it forward and try to help each other out.

This will be the machine I run until I decide to retire out. I might go through another set of sprockets but I should not have to change out idlers again.

 

[webfoot]

treemuncher, reading through the thread it looks like you have kept to dedicated mulchers. When you needed to do steep ground, you went with a spider excavator. What is your take on the Slope mower/ mulchers out now that advertise 45–55-degree slope ability? Looks like they offer 50-120hp and I assume similar tool performances a similarly powered skid steer. Likely make a much better flail mower than mulcher?

FAE RCU
Prinoth Raptor 100
Green Climber ect.

 

[treemuncher]

I have not tried anything like that nor do I need to. I have all of the work 1 person needs to stay more than busy. The spider excavator is a fall back in case I get run out of my normal work, which I do not see happening before I retire out.

I like the concept of the remote control vehicles for safety on those steep slopes. I don't think that they have enough power for anything other than re-clearing work with grasses and very light brush. My experience is that anything over 20-30 degrees make steering difficult and complicates the job. I have been over 45 degrees a couple of times when traction allowed it. At those slopes, there is almost no steering possible because if you start to slide sideways, you lose all control. Next phase after that is a potential roll over, situation stuck and/or machine damage. A roll over with an RC vehicle would be a lot less stressful but could still be very expensive.

Because I work alone, I am always trying to be as time/money efficient as possible. I don't worry about re-clears that need a smaller machine, I don't work partial day jobs unless I get paid for the entire day, I try to spend my customer's money wisely and give them advice if I can not be cost effective for them. I don't see an RC machine in my future as it would/could not demand the rates that I get with my larger machines. For a big operation with lots of employees, an RC machine could make perfect sense but not for me. Unless they made them big enough to work 16" diameter trees or larger, there is no way I would generate an interest unless my business model was different.

As far as flail vs drum, I would NEVER own another flail mower unless I only wanted to cut grass. I started out with a Brown Brontosaurus flail mower. I got really skilled in my welding and gouging as I was forever chasing out cracks and rewelding the flail axle bushings in the rotor. It could not handle the size material that they advertised, without damage. I was forever welding bushings, replacing shafts, replacing broken knives, sharpening or rebuilding. When I made a new fixed tooth rotor for that head (using Fecon teeth), my world changed and productivity skyrocketed. I was getting nearly 40x energy transfer per tooth strike vs flail cutter. I no longer had size limitations as long as I had the time. Unless it is grass or saplings under 1" diameter, I have no use for a flail cutter.

 

[treemuncher]

Longer term before and after: my customer has been keeping his hillside weedeated a couple times a year. Still looks good!

During 9/1/2023


Immediately after 9/2/2023


Updated after photo 1/14/2025 - green grass is starting to fill in!


1/14/2025

 

[webfoot]

Looking at the machines at 50-75hp I would need to bring in ~$150 per machine hour to make the numbers work given the $100-160k sticker prices. With a flail that's about $300/acre mowing grass and light brush. With a mulcher $1500/ acre assuming I could complete 1 acre a day on a slope running through heavy brush and small trees of 6 inches or less.

I previously used goats clearing light brush on steep ground but that came with a lot of hand labor cutting in fence lines. A stroke put an end to that for me I don't have the energy to do hand labor 7 days a week. There was plenty of work doing that, but I don't know how much would transfer over to machine clearing.

Running goats, I priced everything by the job, and I took the risk on how long it would take. After a couple months I got good at estimating how long it would take to clear a given area.

 

[aighead]

I'm ignorant to the economics of all you guys are talking about but I think I'd like to be on receiving end of 300 bucks an acre to mow grass and light brush...

 

[colson04]

I'm ignorant to the economics of all you guys are talking about but I think I'd like to be on receiving end of 300 bucks an acre to mow grass and light brush...

They're talking steep ground. You're not doing an acre very fast compared to flat ground.