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What's your hoe doing?

casey518

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Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
204
Location
adirondacks ny
Snap! 70 bucks ain't bad.

I don't remember what they are charging around here but do recall whomever I looked at didn't want to deliver. My FIL has a big trailer and I'm sure he'd be interested in helping me move some if I ever got some. I'm reconsidering my pond build as I've seen folks built the walls of a swimming pond with these kinds of blocks. It was decrease my lining costs substantially, and I could line the pond in different sections.

I'd be surprised if my hoe side could lift and move one, but maybe I'm selling her short.
I bought them from a massive concrete company in my area. Not sure they are made with leftover concrete or purpose poured. They are big and heavy tho so I'm hoping they stay put. Debating whether or not to sink the first course in the ground a bunch to keep it more stable in the frost/thaw.
 

Bootheal

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
402
Location
Jackson, MO
Last year I dug these in the banks in anticipation of having a watergate fabricated this summer.

Has not been tested yet but soon enough I’m sure. Hopefully the crossbar is out of the water!
 

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Swetz

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
1,791
Location
NJ/PA
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Retired :-)
Debating whether or not to sink the first course in the ground a bunch to keep it more stable in the frost/thaw.

I have never set one of these blocks but have wanted to...Someday maybe??

Anyhow, I talked to a local concrete guy and he said a nice layer of clean stone under them, and first layer partially buried would be best. They are big and heavy, but he said the clean stone is to drain the water so that they do not heave from the freeze. Sounds reasonable. but I cannot back it up other than his word of mouth.
 

HarleyHappy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
3,379
Location
So NH
Occupation
Welder/Mechanic
Have built a few retaining walls with them and currently waiting on future SIL to get a garage/loft project off the ground, because we are trading some work for a 20x24 carport. I will be stacking 2 high and anchoring carport to the Mafia block tops. I usually put stone down a foot or 2 depending on frost line, here it’s realistically 2 1/2’. Then pack some dense grade over the stone and level it out. Then I put some clean stone for at least 2’ for backfill.
That will keep the frost out.
 

casey518

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
204
Location
adirondacks ny
Have built a few retaining walls with them and currently waiting on future SIL to get a garage/loft project off the ground, because we are trading some work for a 20x24 carport. I will be stacking 2 high and anchoring carport to the Mafia block tops. I usually put stone down a foot or 2 depending on frost line, here it’s realistically 2 1/2’. Then pack some dense grade over the stone and level it out. Then I put some clean stone for at least 2’ for backfill.
That will keep the frost out.
Whereabouts are you? I am a little concerned about frost. Our line is 48" here in upstate ny technically but i don't think it usually gets that deep.
 

Swetz

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Oct 31, 2019
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1,791
Location
NJ/PA
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Retired :-)
Our line is 48" here in upstate ny technically but i don't think it usually gets that deep.

Again, no real experience here, but the concrete guy said he does not try to get below the frost line. He tries to make the water drain so it does not lift the blocks. I would assume it would not hurt them to move some as they are separate pieces.
 

HarleyHappy

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Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
3,379
Location
So NH
Occupation
Welder/Mechanic
You’re not really getting below the frost line, more like just getting a good level base and having nothing underneath that will heave. I’m in Southern NH and frost line is 3’ but what’s more important is drainage.
 

casey518

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
204
Location
adirondacks ny
Again, no real experience here, but the concrete guy said he does not try to get below the frost line. He tries to make the water drain so it does not lift the blocks. I would assume it would not hurt them to move some as they are separate pieces.
Interesting. I was considering landing my 6x6 posts on these for my shed roof. Im ok with slight movement but can't have anything major. The clean drainage rock compacted underneith kinda makes sense.
 

aighead

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
3,399
Location
Dayton, OH
Nice!

I'd be curious, but don't understand the math and physics involved at how much outward pressure some stacked blocks could withstand. If I were to use them as swimming pond walls for, I dunno, 15' x 25' x 10' deep would I need to back fill to keep them standing? I think back filling would be acceptable if kept below the water surface for plants and junk on the outside of the swimming portion.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,967
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Nice!

I'd be curious, but don't understand the math and physics involved at how much outward pressure some stacked blocks could withstand. If I were to use them as swimming pond walls for, I dunno, 15' x 25' x 10' deep would I need to back fill to keep them standing? I think back filling would be acceptable if kept below the water surface for plants and junk on the outside of the swimming portion.
Wet dirt is heavier than water. I expect walls to buckle over time.
A house basement ithstands pressure from outside for a few reasons:
It isn't real tall, typically less than 8'.
It has a concrete floor poured between the walls preventing soil pressure from buckling the walls at bottom where pressure is greatest.
The wooden floor structure is bolted to the top of the foundation wall, helping to support from the top.
Dirt is usually not as tall as the wall.
Poured concrete foundations include steel & have some strength.
Dirt weighs approximately 100 LBS per cubic feet, wet dirt more, it's more plastic. Ten feet down, that is more than 1000 PSF against the bottom of your wall. Water weighs about 55 LBS per cubic foot. Ten feet down pressure is 550 PSF. That's about 450 PSF differential pushing on every square foot of surface That's 5400 pounds force against each mafia block.
A small enough structure would gain strength from the corners. Long, tall walls won't do as well.

Wet dirt one side, water on the other, these blocks displace water, about 1700 LBS per block. Under water they don't weigh as much, only about half as much as they do in air.
 
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aighead

Senior Member
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Apr 25, 2019
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3,399
Location
Dayton, OH
Willie, you take me for much smarter than I am!

I think you are saying the dirt/mud would be a bigger issue than the water pushing out on the blocks and that with the pressure from both sides the dirt wins and that the blocks would likely not hold the water due to them collapsing or moving in toward the water?
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
10,154
Location
usa
In the area where I live they use concrete that is leftover from deliveries.
The strength of the concrete in them varies as result of that.

My loader could only lift them if I wrapped a heavy chain around the loader's cross arm.
That was not a good situation because the elevated block was very close to the radiator shroud.
I actually damaged the loader valve from the extreme pressure that was generated from hoisting a block like that.
The valve body had weak spot in it and the pressure blew a un-repairable pin hole size leak in it.
I located a couple of used valves for sale on the internet. All of them were extremely expensive when the shipping was added to their cost.
Unfortunately when a machine is as old as mine is I was lucky to even find a used valve.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,967
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Willie, you take me for much smarter than I am!

I think you are saying the dirt/mud would be a bigger issue than the water pushing out on the blocks and that with the pressure from both sides the dirt wins and that the blocks would likely not hold the water due to them collapsing or moving in toward the water?
Yup. A pond holds water because the earth around it is saturated & heavy enough to hold it in place. A vertical walled pond wouldn't be possible unless huge cut blocks were used heavy enough to resist the inward pressure.
 

T-town

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
462
Location
NE PA
Occupation
retired !
Continuing to 'push' down trees...
.. one of the bigger ones, took a bit of persuading(#1) The lack of moisture in the ground let me clean the root ball of dirt..(#2)
Tree no. 2 was a bit smaller (#3)
...and the clean up where I disguised the hoe as a pile of oak leaves..;)
KIMG1337.JPGKIMG1339.JPGKIMG1340.JPGKIMG1341.JPG

..that lack of moisture was before todays 2.5" of wetness!!
 

eKretz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2023
Messages
150
Location
NW Indiana
Yup. A pond holds water because the earth around it is saturated & heavy enough to hold it in place. A vertical walled pond wouldn't be possible unless huge cut blocks were used heavy enough to resist the inward pressure.

It doesn't necessarily have to be saturated. Many many ponds and lakes hold water because they have a high percentage of clay in the soil underneath, and that's effectively watertight. I agree that freestanding blocks would not stay in place while holding 10' of water depth though.
 
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