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New D4D operator

Mcrafty1

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Oct 12, 2019
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535
Location
Central Maine
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Earth work
I have a few questions regarding the front idler wheel. Is it supposed to be riding dead even or is this properly aligned?
Looking at the track chains in these photos I think I'd put a couple new sprockets on the machine and you'd get some pretty good use on the rest of what you have there now and could relax the tension on the tracks some without worrying about throwing a track. Running tracks to tight can cause a host of problems you would want to avoid if humanly possible.
 

Nige

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Cylinder, are you referring to the tensioner?

Or does the idler wheel have a tensioner/cylinder...

What do you mean by re-shimming. And do you do it.
Sorry for the confusion. I was replying to one of your posts when you posted the second one so I replied to that one also. In doing so the replies did not make it clear which post they referred to.

The "Is the cylinder fully retracted in those photos, or will it retract further.?" question refers to the RH blade tilt cylinder in the three photos accompanying Post #16. In other words if the cylinder is completely retracted does that flat spot on the rod go inside the cylinder or not.? If it does not then it is not a problem - other than the fact the seals are leaking a bit that is.

"The idler should ride more central than that, maybe not dead centre but certainly closer than your photos show. The idler guides probably need re-shimming." This refers to the four photos accompanying Post #18.

The reason for the off-centre running of the idler may be more complex and possibly should be discussion for a separate thread. For example there could be a problem of track frame misalignment resulting from wear in one or more areas which, if that's the case, doesn't really have a workable solution within your budget.

Try a quick check using the illustration below.

1. Remove the 4 bolts and the 1M-8869 Plate from the outside of the idler assembly.
2. Measure the thickness of the pack of 4K-3585 shims that you will find sandwiched between the plate and the idler assembly.
3. Inspect the narrow strip along the track frame where the plate slides back & forth as the recoil mechanism operates. You can see the marks of this area to the right of the plate in the photo. Is the track frame worn down in that specific narrow strip.? It is not unusual for this to happen.
4. Reassemble the plate and shim pack. Tighten the hardware.
5. Repeat Steps 1 thru 4 for the plate on the inside of the track frame.

Post your results

1737556605765.png
1737556932028.png
 
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Nige

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Looking at the track chains in these photos I think I'd put a couple new sprockets on the machine and you'd get some pretty good use on the rest of what you have there now and could relax the tension on the tracks some without worrying about throwing a track. Running tracks to tight can cause a host of problems you would want to avoid if humanly possible.
The problem is that the sprockets on the OP's tractor do not have bolt-on tooth segments. They are one-piece, requiring first the removal of the track frames to give access to the sprockets. Before that can be done the blade and push arms have to also come off. Then the sprockets themselves have be removed/installed by the use of specialized hydraulic pulling equipment. That's probably a reason why whoever owned the tractor before fought shy of doing the job.

The other alternative, which would still require the removal of blade, push arms, and track frames, would be to cut off the outer rim of the sprocket containing the teeth and buy a replacement Rim assembly. The Rim would need to be welded on to the centre disc of the old sprocket that remained on the machine, a quite complex process and not for the inexperienced. See SEHS7274 attached.
 

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Mcrafty1

Senior Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Central Maine
Occupation
Earth work
The problem is that the sprockets on the OP's tractor do not have bolt-on tooth segments. They are one-piece, requiring first the removal of the track frames to give access to the sprockets. Before that can be done the blade and push arms have to also come off. Then the sprockets themselves have be removed/installed by the use of specialized hydraulic pulling equipment. That's probably a reason why whoever owned the tractor before fought shy of doing the job.

The other alternative, which would still require the removal of blade, push arms, and track frames, would be to cut off the outer rim of the sprocket containing the teeth and buy a replacement Rim assembly. The Rim would need to be welded on to the centre disc of the old sprocket that remained on the machine, a quite complex process and not for the inexperienced. See SEHS7274 attached.
Wow, that's a lot to go through to replace sprockets, I didn't realize they didn't have RR segments. I guess run them tell she won't move.
 

Tones

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Mar 15, 2009
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Ubique
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Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
RickyBobby, on this forum there was a bloke called Scrub Puller who wrote some very good advice on how to operate dozers. It still could be here but the site has gone through some changes since then. Fingers crossed
 

Welder Dave

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I hate to rain on your parade but having no one around with any experience operating or repairing this type of machine may be a money pit of headaches and cost. In my opinion it would be better to hire a contractor. It may be cheaper in the long run
Maybe one of members of the church works in construction and runs a dozer?

Interesting welding procedures. Lists only 1/8" and 3/16" 7018 and not 5/32" while also mentioning not to get things too hot. For automatic welding only 150 deg. preheat compared to 300 deg's. for stick. I realize stick is listed for spokes but flux-core and sub-arc put more heat into the weldment much faster than stick so there is a higher quench effect on the weldment. If too much heat is detrimental why use 1/16" flux-core at 400 amps instead of .045" flux-core at much less amps. I'm not sure what the low end parameters of sub-arc are. It seems like the sprockets could be successfully welded using smaller dia. rods or wire if the person welding didn't have a 250 amp stick welder or 400 amp constant voltage welder for flux-core. I think spray arc mig could also be effective. Would be interesting to know what type of steel the sprockets are and how it compares to common grades of weldable steel and the welding procedures.
 
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RickyBobbyD4D

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Vancouver Washington
Here's an up close photo of the sprocket, I understand it does look like it's brand new. But it doesn't seem like it's to sharp. What do you guys think. Is it time to re-weld a new sprocket on?
 

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Nige

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Here's an up close photo of the sprocket, I understand it does look like it's brand new. But it doesn't seem like it's to sharp. What do you guys think. Is it time to re-weld a new sprocket on?
Plus fitting new sprockets to worn chains isn't the smartest thing to do.
Did you miss the above comment from @Tones.?
 

Welder Dave

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I think the sprocket wear is consistent with the bushing wear. I'd run the tracks just slightly tight 1 1/4"-1 1/2" sag and see how it goes. You don't want them too tight because it puts too much pressure on the tips of the sprocket teeth.
 

Mcrafty1

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Plus fitting new sprockets to warn chains isn't the smartest thing to do.
If you need to go all through that to replace sprockets I couldn't agree more, If it was just a matter of RR the sprockets after removing the bolts that held them to the hub....and one wasn't intending to work the machine many hours a week...it will buy you some time to replace just the sprockets. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...lol.
 

Mquinista

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Jul 25, 2022
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Europe
My 50 cent of experience...
There´s no point replacing the sprocket in a used up chain, as the new sprocket tecnically does not have the same pitch due to chain strech and bush wear, so professionals use to replace both chain and sprockets at a time, then rotate bushings and install new sprockets, all other track riding elements can be replaced one by one, as increased wear untill parts match up is not noticeable.

This beeing said and accepted as a "way to proceed" other considerations have to be weighed.
Beeing a conventional track there will come a time where the sprocket will slips toot, this may lead to derail, specially when walking in inclines , with all the inconvenience that rerailing will take.
If machine is to run in level terrain, it does not derail that easy even when sliping tooth, anyway when that starts to happen its time to fix sprocket and chain.

BTW that sprocket has a lot of life still, just keep it tight as per the book, and u still be able to run for a quite some hundred hours.
Those sprocket weels have been repaired by welding segments.... i wonder why they did not chose bolt on segments when they did that...
 

Nige

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Those sprocket weels have been repaired by welding segments.... i wonder why they did not chose bolt on segments when they did that...
The original sprockets on the tractor are the "spoked-wheel" type. There is nothing on which to weld a flange with bolt holes that would be capable of receiving bolt-on segments. You can see the welds at the end of the spokes where a replacement rim has been installed previousy in the photo below.

1737644827791.png
 

Nige

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Maybe another reality check called for here.

The OP stated that he doesn't have much experience with machinery and that's fine. Yet here he is asking if it is necessary to carry out a complex welding repair procedure that also requires the blade, push arms, and track frames to be removed from the tractor before the sprockets can even be accessed.
 

Mquinista

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The original sprockets on the tractor are the "spoked-wheel" type. There is nothing on which to weld a flange with bolt holes that would be capable of receiving bolt-on segments. You can see the welds at the end of the spokes where a replacement rim has been installed previousy in the photo below.

View attachment 330190
Anyway that was exactly what i mean´t, istead of a weld a rim sprocket, i have seen welding a rim with holes to bolt on sprocket segments, it was long ago in D6´s and 8´s not really sure how it was done back then just seen them doing it.
 

Nige

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Anyway that was exactly what i meant, instead of a weld a rim sprocket, i have seen welding a rim with holes to bolt on sprocket segments,
AFAIK the installation of a Sprocket Segment Adapter Group (aka "rim with holes to bolt on segments") was only available on larger models where the original sprocket was of the “non-spoked” variety. On smaller machines a replacement weld-on rim was all that was available.

On Page 1 of SEHS7274 that I posted above is the following - “For some machines, adapters are available for conversion to the use of sprocket segments. If this type of reconditioning is desired, see Special Instruction SMHS7751, entitled Installation of Sprocket Segment Adapter Groups". From what I can see the D6 is the smallest size of tractor where this type of conversion will work.
 

MG84

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I think you are worrying too much. You're just trying to work a few acres, not make a living with it for the next 20yrs. Service it, grease it, adjust the track tension and get to work. If you're just working dirt, have at it and learn as you go. Clearing land is a bit more dangerous so you might want to proceed with more caution (and experienced help). A few very basic tips: Dozers can move erratically, if it has a seat belt wear it, if not add one. Breaking over a pile of dirt, large rock, log etc will pitch the machine up and back very quickly, go slowly especially as the tracks start over the edge. Always strip your sod/topsoil first and pile it out of the way to use it later. Anywhere you make a pile make sure you can get back behind it to spread it out, don't 'paint yourself in a corner'. If you have a big pile of dirt, gravel, etc to spread start cutting down the side and push it out as you go. A tandem dump truck size pile you should be able to push straight through with that machine. Most work will be in 1st gear, reverse in 1st or 2nd. Going too fast in reverse is hard on undercarriage. If you are trying to level an area start from a smooth starting point if possible and work your way out. Keep plenty of material in front of your blade as your go. Working an area in 2-3 different directions will help to make it flat, start running N-S, then E-W, then at 45*. I can add more if need be, but there are some good books and videos about dozer operation out there you might want to check out. After running several tanks of fuel through it you'll start to get the hang of it.
 

Welder Dave

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Yeah, just run it and get used to it. The teeter totter effect takes time to get used to. A track machine doesn't roll over obstacles or steeper hills like a rubber tire machine. It can be violent when you go over center and throw you off the machine or bang your head into windshield on a cabbed machine.
 
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