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John Deere 230C LC Hydraulic Regulator Issue (I think?)

RanchTX

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Apr 18, 2021
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Location
Eagle Lake, TX
I have a 2004 John Deere 230CLC with about 5800 hours. I've owned it for about 5 months now and have noticed that it's underpowered, which is especially prevalent when trying to do multiple functions, like boom up and swing simultaneously. I got to looking a the pump and not noticed that on the left side regulator, the left wire connection is unplugged from the solenoid on top of the regulator. The wire is just sitting off to the side, will the wire for the left side is still plugged in.

When I plug the wire back into the connector, the machine bogs down with any kind of movement at all. Simply booming up will almost stall the engine. If you unplug it, then you can go back to "normal" and the machine is useable, however, on average it is 2-3 seconds slower than the spec for the different cycle time tests. The machine will still dig and get a full bucket, it's just a lot slower than normal.

Does it sound like the solenoid is bad or maybe the entire regulator?

Here is a picture for reference:

20210226_174736.jpg
 

mg2361

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Welcome to HEF Ranch;)!

I would check your engine speed sensor. That is the speed sensing solenoid. The basic purpose of that solenoid is to reduce pump flow if the engine is pulled down too hard and it gets it's information from the engine speed sensor.

Press and hold the set button and start the machine. After bulb check release the button. Then use the display select button to scroll first to codes (a zero will be on the left side of the screen, the code will be on the right). Any number higher than zero on the right is a code. Post if any. Then use the display select to scroll to engine rpm ("n" on the left side of the screen). Post idle and fast idle. Then scroll until there is a 6 on the left side and report what is there at idle and fast idle. Also report what is on the screen at idle as you pass #'s 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Compare you engine ("n" in monitor) rpm readings with the diagnostic display unit in the left rear door near the batteries.

230 speed sensor.png
 
Last edited:

RanchTX

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Location
Eagle Lake, TX
Thanks for the reply MG2361!

Here is what I have on the display. I'm taking it from a video I took last time I did it. For the other stuff, I'll have to wait until Tuesday morning when I'm back near the machine again.


n - 1189
L1 - E
L2 - E
0 - 0
1 - 0
2 - 0.3
3 - 0.3
4 - 0.1
5 - 0.1
6 - 1090
7 - 0.2
8 - 2.5
9 - 0.1
A - 0.1
B - 0.0
C - 0.1
D - 0
E - 0.0
F - 0
 

RanchTX

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Location
Eagle Lake, TX
Hey MG2361,

So I did some more digging in the Operations and Test Manual and it looks like the connector that is unplugged goes to the Speed Sense Solenoid and is on the same circuit as the engine speed sensor. The Engine Speed Sensor looks simple enough to test, as it says just remove and test its resistance and then use the multimeter in the connection terminals to see if the voltage increases as you increase the engine speed.

If that checks out, then I guess the culprit would be the Speed Sense Solenoid or not necessarily?
 

mg2361

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The Engine Speed Sensor looks simple enough to test, as it says just remove and test its resistance and then use the multimeter in the connection terminals to see if the voltage increases as you increase the engine speed.

You can check the ohms as well as the AC voltage. But if you run the engine at various rpms and compare the rpm from the monitor with the rpm from the DDU in the battery compartment they should be the same. The DDU uses a different speed sensor that is mounted on the engine.

If that checks out, then I guess the culprit would be the Speed Sense Solenoid or not necessarily?

It is possible that your machine is working electrically and that the solenoid is stuck. Try swapping it with the solenoid next to it (attachment flow rate solenoid, there identical) to see if that solves your issue. If not then it is not the solenoid.
 

RanchTX

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Eagle Lake, TX
mg2361,

So I ran some more tests last night and here is what I found.

From looking at the codes, specifically number 6:

Low Idle - 750
Fast Idle - 2000

The RPM read out was the same on both the monitor and DDU.

With the Speed Sense Solenoid unplugged, for 2 and 3..... the PSI reading was about 3300. When we would plug the speed sense solenoid back in, the pressure would go up to about 4200 PSI, however the moment you moved anything, the engine would immediately bog down. It's not bogging to the point of stalling, but you can certainly hear the motor bog and sound like it's encountered resistance it's struggling to overcome.

We didn't get a chance yesterday to swap the two solenoids around but hoping to later on today. Same with testing the engine speed sensor ohms. I wanted to post up the results today just in case it shows you something blatantly obvious in the meantime while we wait to get the solenoids swapped around.

Again, can't thank you enough for the help and advice!!
 

mg2361

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Fast Idle - 2000

What was your actual fast idle ("n")?

for 2 and 3..... the PSI reading was about 3300. When we would plug the speed sense solenoid back in, the pressure would go up to about 4200 PSI

Pump output pressure is way too high. I assume you did the math since these readings are in MPa? The readings were 22 and 28 on both #2 and 3? Was that reading at low idle for fast idle?

Continue with the solenoid swap. I have to think on this a little and study the theory.
 

RanchTX

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Eagle Lake, TX
I'm not sure what it was, it was near that, but I'll confirm the fast idle RPM today and get the number.

That pressure was while the boom or stick was moving and there was a load on the pump. With no load on the pump, it was .3 for both 2 and 3. And yea I did the math for the PSI. It peaked at 24 and 29. And those were both at fast idle.

And got ya on solenoid swap. We'll do it today and see what the results are.
 

mg2361

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Okie Doke.

That pressure was while the boom or stick was moving and there was a load on the pump. With no load on the pump, it was .3 for both 2 and 3. And yea I did the math for the PSI. It peaked at 24 and 29. And those were both at fast idle.

OK. I thought those readings were with the levers in neutral. That changes things.
 

RanchTX

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So the solenoids were swapped today and it seems the engine bogs ever so slightly when the hydraulic pump is under load, but it's much better and doesn't bog it down nearly as much as it did before the solenoid swap.
 

mg2361

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What does ("n") read now at fast idle levers in neutral and with the hydraulics stalled?
 

RanchTX

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Well crap, that's the one thing I didn't get. Will get that info for ya next time I'm at the machine. Won't be til Tuesday morning unfortunately.
 

RanchTX

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Haha....I'll be there someday I'm sure.

So I'm back out here and ran through the tests again while the solenoids are still swapped.

High Idle is 2266 and number 6 is 2000. When I engage the Hydraulics, the RPMs drop to around 2050.

The other pressure readings are:

2- 33 (peak) 28-30 (average)
3 - Similar to 2, but slightly lower
4&5 - Hit a peak of like 3 at most, without much fluctuation, except for engaging or disengaging levels.

The machine is noticeably faster now and the cycle times have sped up to closer to where they should be, but the Hydraulics do seem very jerky.

Thinking the solenoid is likely the culprit?
 

RanchTX

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Eagle Lake, TX
mg2361,

So after thinking and reading on it more....it seems that when the hydraulics engage and drop the RPM to around 2050, it's pretty much matching the target engine speed of 2000. Then with it peaking at almost 4800 PSI when I stall the hydraulics, not in power boost mode, that pressure is akin to the machine's capabilities.

With that said, with a working solenoid in place now, would you expect the hydraulics to be more responsive and much faster? I'm thinking that because I'm used to it being slow, I had to make exaggerated movements with the joysticks and now that it's back "normal" again, those exaggerated movements I'm making with the joysticks are what is making it seem jerky to me cause it responds so much faster.

Lastly, if I take that other solenoid location name at face value, it would indicate that it's only used for attachments? The machine isn't plumbed with auxiliary lines, therefore it won't ever have any attachments on it, so does it matter if that solenoid is broken and doesn't work? If it doesn't matter, then I assume I can just leave it as is now that we swapped the solenoids and not worry about getting a replacement?

Again, I thank you for the insight and advice!
 

mg2361

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It does sound like the solenoid is the issue. Fast idle no load spec in "P" or "HP" mode is 2115, but that is not adjustable without John Deere's Service Advisor program and even then it can only be adjusted maybe 100 rpm either way from spec. In HP mode when you stall arm in that rpm should be higher than no load rpm.

it seems that when the hydraulics engage and drop the RPM to around 2050, it's pretty much matching the target engine speed of 2000

That solenoid is to prevent the engine from going below 2000 rpm while the hydraulics are loaded. It does that by sending pilot oil to the pump regulator to destroke the pump.

those exaggerated movements I'm making with the joysticks are what is making it seem jerky to me cause it responds so much faster

Yes that could be the case.

if I take that other solenoid location name at face value, it would indicate that it's only used for attachments?

Even though Deere does not use that solenoid, even when auxiliaries are plumbed up, it can still affect the operation of the pump if defective (if stuck in the closed position). Fortunately yours is stuck in the open position and that is good because that would be the normal position of the auxiliary solenoid anyway. So leave them swapped and run it. To purchase that solenoid you have to by the housing with both solenoids in it (solenoids not sold separately) and that would set you back $650.
 
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