300 foot ditch with only 6 inches fall.

[dirtmonkey]

This is not my project but have been asked for advise on how to make this work.
I know it can be done but the problem they're having or " discussing" is what to do it with. My brother has a municipality ditch to make drain. It's 300 feet with only 6 inches of fall and it must connect two tin horns at each end. The boss won't let them use a skid loader or backhoe or any thing else with any laser set up. The boss tells him I can do it with a 140 blade and I don't need any @&*%# laser !
How would you do this?? Keep in mind that's only alittle over 2inches every 100 feet. I could see it with pipe maybe but ,dirt in a wet ditch and a super operator that got all 6 inches of fall in 40 feet! My brother is about to pull his hair out. He is also the new street Forman and I think they're screwing with him. FYI they're standing the blade up to do this. Again, how would y'all do this !??

 

[Tinkerer]

How wet is the ditch ? What are the finished slope dimensions on both sides ? Vee or a flat bottom ? I have done a lot of them like you are describing with angle blade dozers and without a laser. Yes it sounds like the boss is screwing with him. Why else would he care if a laser is used or not ?? Other than the fact he is the NEW street foreman.

 

[sheepfoot]

Six inches in 300' is easy, yes it seems like you have a old blade boss that has been around the block also. The grader is a very versatile work tool with a broad range of extended blade positions. You can run the circle/side shift out and straight up with a good shoulder/ditch bank and use the hyd moldboard to run your grade. This is a city/town ditch no more than 2' to 3' by 3' deep along a road/city street. I have been out on graders alot of times and had to do this because of no taper built into the ditch with space issues. It is a pain to rake the spoil up and out onto the shoulder with the blade, but it is done alot in city/town work. Years ago with out the hyd moldboard/blade tilt/lift cylinders/pin pullers/knuckle wrist busting old cats, the new graders are so nice to do this with. I myself like the track/rubber tire backhoe's with the power tilt and clean out buckets to get around all the utilities better, we will set up the trans/laser when needed but also 4 stakes and a lock level in 300' will work quick and get you close enough for gov work.

 

[dirtmonkey]

How wet is the ditch ? What are the finished slope dimensions on both sides ? Vee or a flat bottom ? I have done a lot of them like you are describing with angle blade dozers and without a laser. Yes it sounds like the boss is screwing with him. Why else would he care if a laser is used or not ?? Other than the fact he is the NEW street foreman.

I don't think he has any specific criteria. Just make it drain. From what I under stand it is tight space. We used to do it (when we had room ) with a rubber CTL and a smooth bucket or land planer with with a rod man or laser set up giving it 5.5 ft flat bottom and then roll the corners down. Leaving a smooth / clean bottom just alittle narrower. That worked for us so that's what he is used too and it had to be right. We were accountable.

 

[Oxbow]

The key here is that it has to drain, i.e., no high spots. Slight low spots are ok and it becomes an excercise of aesthetics. You said no lasers (I would set up our slope laser to check grade) so what are you allowed to use to check grade, a level, or water?

A VEE ditch with a blade is easy if you have access to both sides. If you only have access to one side and the bottom is wet you may not be able to reach the far side. If you can straddle the ditch it is also do-able with the blade if it is not too deep, and leave a narrow flat bottom. On the ends there will be a bit of hand work. This all depends on how deep/wide it is.

 

[dirtmonkey]

Personally I think he is being set up for failure. I don't see how they expect him to do his job correctly if they don't let him use the proper tools. Why else would he be Forman.
And yes , he has an old blade man as his new super. The new super just stepped up and my brother filled his position. The new city manager is watching them both closely so he wants his crew and work to look good and not waste tax payers $.
Sorry guys , I kinda turned this into a rant :soapbox
I guess the point is ,he wants the job to be right the first time.

 

[DIRTHAWK]

Rule of thumb is water won't run on dirt at less than .5% grade.. To eyeball a .20% grade is nearly impossible without a laser guidance or gps system. Good luck

 

[td25c]

This is not my project but have been asked for advise on how to make this work.
I know it can be done but the problem they're having or " discussing" is what to do it with. My brother has a municipality ditch to make drain. It's 300 feet with only 6 inches of fall and it must connect two tin horns at each end. Again, how would y'all do this !??

Yeah , we would set up the transit first & get readings off of each tin horn ( culvert opening ) . Then have the stick man walk down the ditch line and drive a grade stake or just put paint on the ground every 25 feet or so indicating amount of material to be removed . - 2" , - 1.5" , - .5" and so on .

If the ditch bottom is pretty firm I would use a tracked skid loader . If it's soft use excavator with 5 foot ditching bucket .

Using an excavator can also do the job while it's raining . Let the water show you where & how deep to dig .

 

[FSERVICE]

IF he is the foreman & wants it right step up & say "THIS IS THE WAY I WANT IT DONE & WE ARE GOING TO DO IT THIS WAY!!! just my thoughts on it. no reason to have a "old blade" set in his old school ways screw something up!! not that theres anything wrong with old school but we do live in a very high tech world & might as well use this technology being as we have it!!

 

[amazincaucasian]

(If the ditch is big enough and they're ok with a flat bottom) We've had good results with a compact tractor and 5' box blade. I find it easier to be accurate compared to a ctl.

 

[dirtmonkey]

Update

IF he is the foreman & wants it right step up & say "THIS IS THE WAY I WANT IT DONE & WE ARE GOING TO DO IT THIS WAY!!! just my thoughts on it. no reason to have a "old blade" set in his old school ways screw something up!! not that theres anything wrong with old school but we do live in a very high tech world & might as well use this technology being as we have it!!

.
Thanks for the replies fellas ! Well he finally had enough of that BS and is back working for me. He just could not stand the stupidity any longer !

(If the ditch is big enough and they're ok with a flat bottom) We've had good results with a compact tractor and 5' box blade. I find it easier to be accurate compared to a ctl.

.
We have done that's as well , when there is room.
I think things were just stacked against him that day. His boss was a pot smoking moron and had no real construction experience and never had to be held accountable financially or other wise. He was just there longer and could " drive " a blade. My brother and I grew up in this business and under stood at an early age that ANY kind of mistake was not good for us financially and could hurt our family reputation. Dad taught us to always do what's right no matter what.
It worked out! I'm glad to have a good hand again !

 

[DoyleX]

Yeah , we would set up the transit first & get readings off of each tin horn ( culvert opening ) . Then have the stick man walk down the ditch line and drive a grade stake or just put paint on the ground every 25 feet or so indicating amount of material to be removed . - 2" , - 1.5" , - .5" and so on .

If the ditch bottom is pretty firm I would use a tracked skid loader

Even if its wet a ctl will float. You can track pack every square inch also. A blade with all the back and forth will make a big mess.

It's not going to be "perfect" but if you take your time... Even the simplest flat plane lasers can do slope, especially if you have your start and end grades exposed. I would get the laser set for the slope, pound every 25. If your operator is grade blind find a long straight edge and lay that down for him.

It is not that big of a area to bring in another piece for a half days work. Run what ya brung