Looking at a GN trailer to haul skid steer around and coming to a question I keep back tracking on. Does the pin weight give you basicslly a higher gvw for the trailer? What i mean is lets say 14k gvw / 10k payload trailer, hypothetically 2k pin weight, can i haul the 12k on it even though if it were unhooked the gvw would be 16k. I understand the load transfer but I see the trailer still supporting more load then rated and thats my rub on that. Please enlighten me so I don't get railroaded by DOT.
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GVW Questions
- Thread starter AASC
- Start date
Shimmy1
Senior Member
Before I go make my popcorn, this is what I know. In ND, you can put 48k on a tridem all day long in the summer, 52.8k in the winter with a 10%. Depending on empty weight of the whole rig, these trailers will have 72-75k in the box, day after day, all winter long. Nobody that I've ever heard has been hassled by the DOT here, as long as GVW and axle weights are good.
The tags on these trailers say max GVW should be 75k.
I'm making my popcorn now.
The tags on these trailers say max GVW should be 75k.
I'm making my popcorn now.
BC Placer gold
Senior Member
We are in BC so not sure about your jurisdiction. But notice on these tags how the 14k trailer is shown with a GVWR of 15,432lbs (allowing tongue weight transfer) to tow unit.
As we haul with a single axle tractor I can put substantial weight (a lot more than a pickup) on the tow unit. Works good for our small equipment, allowing us to scale (on electric brake trailer) under the required 4600kg (10,000lbs)
As we haul with a single axle tractor I can put substantial weight (a lot more than a pickup) on the tow unit. Works good for our small equipment, allowing us to scale (on electric brake trailer) under the required 4600kg (10,000lbs)
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DM&RDBulldog
Well-Known Member
GVWR is just what its registered for and not the way you are thinking. Its not 14k plus the tongue/pin weight. Doesnt matter if its a semi with special seasonal limits as mentioned above (way to confuse the poor guy), every trailer has a GVWR thats the max legal weight allowed no matter if its attached or sitting on its jacks.
Right, but like the guy above you kinda noted, dot isnt making you drop the trailer alone on the scale, or ive never heard of such. As long as you scale on all axles should be ok right? I assume the trailer manufacturers rate the trailer more so on axle and tire limits than the structural portion of it? If im running over a scale with a 14k gvw trailer with 13,900 on its axles they arent concerning themselves with tongue weight as long as the truck or its axles aren't over?
And i totally get what youre saying. Hooked up though you're transitioning weight to something else though, sitting jacked it is though, thats my confusion.
Junkyard
Senior Member
Most tags should have two numbers. GVWR and GAWR. One is the total the trailer can carry payload plus empty trailer weight and one is the rating of the axles. In my experience a lot of smaller trailer companies don’t do it right.
For example, my 55 ton lowboy is rated at 135,000. It has three 25k axles which is only 75k. The 135k is the empty weight of the trailer plus the payload. They’re accounting for the trailer putting weight on the truck via the neck. We won’t get into the extra axles etc to legally scale that 55 ton.
Around here they look at GVWR of tow vehicle, GVWR of trailer, GVW you are registered for. If they weigh you they’ll make sure you don’t exceed axle rating, tire rating or registered GVW.
Unfortunately there’s often grey area with smaller trailers and it’s mainly due to the mfgr not doing the VIN plate correctly.
For example, my 55 ton lowboy is rated at 135,000. It has three 25k axles which is only 75k. The 135k is the empty weight of the trailer plus the payload. They’re accounting for the trailer putting weight on the truck via the neck. We won’t get into the extra axles etc to legally scale that 55 ton.
Around here they look at GVWR of tow vehicle, GVWR of trailer, GVW you are registered for. If they weigh you they’ll make sure you don’t exceed axle rating, tire rating or registered GVW.
Unfortunately there’s often grey area with smaller trailers and it’s mainly due to the mfgr not doing the VIN plate correctly.
Willie B
Senior Member
I have a tri axle (6 tires) It is rated at 21500. GVWR. It has three 7500 LB axles, Still, the trailer gross as it sits on a scale unhitched from the truck is the nameplate weight of 21500.
Truck tow rating is sometimes greater with a gooseneck trailer than a platform hitch.
Gooseneck, or tag along, total weight adding on tires & tongue weight should not exceed the nameplate GVWR.
Truck tow rating is sometimes greater with a gooseneck trailer than a platform hitch.
Gooseneck, or tag along, total weight adding on tires & tongue weight should not exceed the nameplate GVWR.
Gotcha, I think I understand. Technically you could be over gvw on my hypothetical setup but scaling it kinda hides the pin weight, unless they made you unhook.
My setup i was thinking was i have a 10k skid, my heaviest attachment is 2200#, so 12200. I was looking at a trailer, was near 5k empty and 16k gvw. So 17200 gross, 1200 over gvw, illegal, but ill have a couple thousand in pin weight as well. I mean as I see it, it would scale fine. Sound right? Sounds like a grey area to me.
Trailer mfgs are rating it on all of the above. If you routinely overload the mfgs GVWR you're going to eventually have trouble, regardless of whats legal. Some trailers are built heavy an meant to carry a lot of tongue weight, others are not. The structural aspect of the trailer absolutely is figured in to GVWR.
From a legal perspective, even if you can get by DOT, heaven forbid you were ever in a wreck. Lawyers would have a field day knowing you were intentionally overloading the trailer past GVWR and being willfully negligent based on what you posted in this thread.
Nope, trying to stay under if at all possible, and trying to understand the ins and outs before making any decisions on what trailer and licensing may be needed. Thinking the trailer im looking at to serve multiple purposes may not work as such due to curb weight, its close but still over. Its funny weight compounds so quickly.
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smifwal
Senior Member
this might as were some of your questions. The weights you are talking about you are going to need a CDL. Not sure how much the ticket is for hauling without but the class for the CDL is probably cheaper.i did it for a long time because I honestly didn't know. My dad was a trucker and drove a ready mix truck, I associated those kinds of rigs when the need for a CDL. Sadly we never got to have a more in depth conversation about all the other vehicles and combination their of that required a special license. I took my CDL with a 1 ton manual and my goosenecksmifwal
Senior Member
In my area even the landscape guys are supposed to have depending on what size their tow vehicle is and what size trailer they have. I would bet most of them don't.
Willie B
Senior Member
Vermont & a lot of other States have a simple rule: If your trailer is rated for 10,000 LBS or more, you need CDL. Yet elsewhere it says combined GVWR of trailer & truck must be over 26,000 for this to apply. All this has no influence on load carried. Empty, the rig still needs CDL.
Air brakes are confusing, I can't get a clear answer on them. You need air brake endorsement over 26,000, it seems not if under 26,000.
Yes, get your class A CDL. I think it's well worth the time and money for anyone in construction, excavating, etc, it opens up so many options.
The 26000lb gross weight requirement for a CDL (either straight truck or truck+trailer) is federal. Some states it seems add the more stringent 10000lb trailer requirement, but I personally have never come across that.
It used to be with a 3/4 ton pickup (8500-8800GVWR) or a 1 ton pickup (10000GVWR) you had a lot of trailer choices to still be legal and under CDL. Nowadays the pickup mfg's keep bumping up the GVWR making it difficult to be legal to tow many trailers, despite the trucks having a higher tow rating. My regular cab 2019 F250 has a GVWR of 10K and I think the extended and crew cab versions are 11K+. One tons are getting up into the 14K GVWR now which doesn't leave much room to legally tow a trailer of any weight. I know they keep bumping up the specs to sell more trucks, but I think they are headed in the wrong direction. While I have a class A CDL, I try to keep my pickup + trailer under 26K gross so family, friends, workers can legally drive it if need be, this is getting increasingly harder to do with a 15K trailer.
The 26000lb gross weight requirement for a CDL (either straight truck or truck+trailer) is federal. Some states it seems add the more stringent 10000lb trailer requirement, but I personally have never come across that.
It used to be with a 3/4 ton pickup (8500-8800GVWR) or a 1 ton pickup (10000GVWR) you had a lot of trailer choices to still be legal and under CDL. Nowadays the pickup mfg's keep bumping up the GVWR making it difficult to be legal to tow many trailers, despite the trucks having a higher tow rating. My regular cab 2019 F250 has a GVWR of 10K and I think the extended and crew cab versions are 11K+. One tons are getting up into the 14K GVWR now which doesn't leave much room to legally tow a trailer of any weight. I know they keep bumping up the specs to sell more trucks, but I think they are headed in the wrong direction. While I have a class A CDL, I try to keep my pickup + trailer under 26K gross so family, friends, workers can legally drive it if need be, this is getting increasingly harder to do with a 15K trailer.
CM1995
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OP just plan on getting your CDL.
About to send 2 guys with a dually and 15K lb trailer to get theirs. Here in AL that will get them a Class A pintle/gooseneck with no air brake license. After they get their license I plan on swapping up our 14K gooseneck to a dual 22.5 gooseneck. I have a class A with no restrictions, luckily got mine when it was wide open.
About to send 2 guys with a dually and 15K lb trailer to get theirs. Here in AL that will get them a Class A pintle/gooseneck with no air brake license. After they get their license I plan on swapping up our 14K gooseneck to a dual 22.5 gooseneck. I have a class A with no restrictions, luckily got mine when it was wide open.
smifwal
Senior Member
I have a class A with no tractor trailer commercial They didn't use to put the restriction of no commercial tractor trailer when taking it with a gooseneck, a friend of my has a restriction free (other than air brakes he didn't take that test) I however do but I don't own a semi and don't have anything with air brakes, if/when I do, I just have to go back down take the air brake written test and will receive another permit and then do the pre trip inspection with the semi, I won't have to take the driving test and I don't automatic restriction because I took my original test with a manual transmission
Willie B
Senior Member
In VT I drive down any highway, see 22 year old mini vans. There is a 110 LB man in the driver's seat, 300 LB woman passenger, three donut spares, 1 or 2 broken windows, a dirty kid hanging out any that'll open. They have no exhaust system, no inspection. Police don't bother them.
A truck, now that's a different matter.
A truck, now that's a different matter.
PeterG
Senior Member
If you have a 10K GVW trailer, you do not need a CDL Class A in the US. The trailer empty weight may be about 2500 lb so, so, so that leaves a 7000lb machine plus all the chain binders and anything else on the trailer such as an extra bucket.
If you have a 14K GVW Trailer, they look the same but have bigger 7K axles. Weight of the trailer might be the same, but now you can haul 10,000 lb. More weight than that and the frame work of the trailer may start to bend. For the 14K GVW trailer you need a CDL class A to use it, although many home owners just risk it.
As already said, you need a big enough truck with legal towing capacity and with a hitch with the right class designed to haul that amount of weight.
The way that I went, I bought a used Equipment trailer with surge brakes that has 7K axles, but the GVW is 10K. Although I have a class A CDL, it give you the ability to have a 10K GVW trailer and tow a bit more than you should and still be trailer safe - until State Patrol weighs you etc..
If you have a 14K GVW Trailer, they look the same but have bigger 7K axles. Weight of the trailer might be the same, but now you can haul 10,000 lb. More weight than that and the frame work of the trailer may start to bend. For the 14K GVW trailer you need a CDL class A to use it, although many home owners just risk it.
As already said, you need a big enough truck with legal towing capacity and with a hitch with the right class designed to haul that amount of weight.
The way that I went, I bought a used Equipment trailer with surge brakes that has 7K axles, but the GVW is 10K. Although I have a class A CDL, it give you the ability to have a 10K GVW trailer and tow a bit more than you should and still be trailer safe - until State Patrol weighs you etc..