is a pilot bearing an engine, transmission or clutch part?

[towbar]

I ran into a worn-out pto clutch release bearing problem and have decided to take a much closer look at the pilot-bearing as well, seeing that the tractor, still split, presents a much better opportunity. I tried to identify the part # and availabilty but see no trace of one anywhere in the parts manual for a Deutz-Fahr dx-6.05.

 

[skyking1]

i'm thinking it is a tractor part number. The pilot will be specific to that installation for the Deutz.
Edit:
Oops. that is where I would have gone. you may have to remove it and dimension it, and get with a clutch vendor who has the chops.

 

[towbar]

I went there, 11 chapters in the parts manual, no trace of one.

 

[skyking1]

If it is shot pull it out, take a measurement of the bore in the crank and the transmission pilot shaft. Somebody in the clutch business will be able to work with that. Do you know the grease method for removal of the old bearing?

 

[towbar]

...Do you know the grease method for removal of the old bearing?

no, hit me

 

[skyking1]

pack the cavity with grease, use a nail or wire to poke holes in there to let the air out. keep packing it till you have the cavity full to the back of the bearing.
Grab the closest bolt that fits the hole, then tape the threads till it has a really good seal.
Place bolt through bearing, and give it a smack with your big friendly hammer (BFH).
The hydraulic forces will jack the bearing out of there. Might take a few tries because any air in there compresses and soaks up the force.

 

[towbar]

Excellent! The crank was redone but I can't tell if they changed it

 

[56wrench]

Look in the parts manual at the front of the trans input shaft illustration? Or front end of pto shaft illustration?

 

[Diesel Dave]

Some brands call it a spigot bearing

 

[towbar]

Ever since my first hot-rod (32 chev with 56 Lincoln engine and AUTO box ) I've never touched a clutch or a manual tranny in my life! Can't find anything in the Engine or Gearbox parts manuals (the applicable ones). But I did find a picture from my earlier crank hub broken-bolt episode and I remember putting my finger into it and noticing that it was NOT loose. It LOOKS like it may be a bushing and not a bearing at all:

Anyway 2 local mechanics say "you do NOT leave something like that unchanged while a tractor is already split". So the clutch comes off again and I'll just have to reinstall it a 3rd time (I'll know how to do this by the time I get done)! At a minimum I have to spray it out clean, then re-examine it and unless I come accross serious advice to leave it alone I'll almost certainly change it.

I'm a little confused though, this bearing or bushing is turning at engine rpm all the time, how can it be a bushing and even if it's a pin-bearing how can it be without continuous pressure-oil lubrication?

BTW since last night I've been emailing with this https://agrodoctor.eu/en/ outfit in Poland, really impressed by their response speed and readiness to help out (prices being more than reasonable).

 

[towbar]

Some brands call it a spigot bearing

THANKS! I looked that up and found one answer: the spigot bearing or bushing 'works' only when the clutch is disengaged, that explains why it survives just fine without full-time lube. Maybe I could just leave it alone (probably won't, but it can be an academic question)?

 

[skyking1]

measure and inspect it.
Most of them were oilite bushings back in the day.

 

[56wrench]

If the crank was reground, the machine shop likely washed the crank in a hot cabinet and any lube in that bearing/bushing will be gone. In case you didn’t already know, those tractors with the dual clutch pressure plate assembly also usually have a gear shift lever used to engage and disengage the pto gear train. The pto clutch is only to be used when that lever is shifted otherwise severe release bearing wear and crankshaft thrust bearing wear occurs. I saw that happen on a customer’s little Fiat made tractor. It wiped out the crankshaft thrust bearing and damaged the block. The owner was not happy. He knew how to operate it but his son forgot

 

[Fred Goatroper]

not sure about your machine but the poilot bearing sits ant the back of the crankshaft in the bellhousing. the transmishion input shaft runs through the clutch & pressure plate andi nto the pilot bearing.

 

[56wrench]

Most tractors with independent pto, the dual pressure plate used a hollow drive quill for the trans input and the pto shaft runs inside the input shaft/quill back to the pto gear train. Inside the quill there is usually a bushing that pilots the quill on the pto shaft and the pto shaft(the inner one) pilots in the end of the crank. Notice i said ‘usually’. Or there may be two pilot bearings—a small one for the inner shaft and a larger one for the quill in the crankshaft or hub

 

[towbar]

If the crank was reground, the machine shop likely washed the crank in a hot cabinet and any lube in that bearing/bushing will be gone. In case you didn’t already know, those tractors with the dual clutch pressure plate assembly also usually have a gear shift lever used to engage and disengage the pto gear train. The pto clutch is only to be used when that lever is shifted otherwise severe release bearing wear and crankshaft thrust bearing wear occurs. I saw that happen on a customer’s little Fiat made tractor. It wiped out the crankshaft thrust bearing and damaged the block. The owner was not happy. He knew how to operate it but his son forgot

I was wondering why a PTO clutch used far less than a tranny clutch would be worn out and you got that one right. My suspicion was that someone had left the clutch lever half-engaged or something like that. Didn't know about the importance of the shift lever (540-N-1000) being in neutral (haven't done much Op-Man reading yet).

Otherwise, I took the day and removed the clutch, intent on checking out the piece and more than prepared to to replace it. Just as I remembered it was NOT loose at all, but I cleaned it and really fingered it deep enough to feel partly exposed roller pins so it is a needle-bearing. Not only that but it's like new (probably new) with next to no lash and the ID is barely bigger than the shaft-end it receives. So my hunch is that the machine shop who did the crank simply replaced it though it doesn't appear on their quoted crank service 'routine'. I re-oiled it and even left a dab of grease in there before re-installing the clutch now for the 3rd time so I should have THAT drill down pat!

As far as the release bearings I got these prices, ordered the LUK editions

04383378
LUK (Germany) : 73,85 USD
SACHS (Germany) : 50 USD
KAWE (Netherlands) : 37,73 USD

04383379
LUK (Germany) : 122,85 USD
SACHS (Germany) : 122,15 USD
KAWE (Netherlands) : 70,77 USD
No name : 44,45 USD

I should have them in a week or little more. Normally I would have bought cheap ones but a tractor-split is not an an everyday task. I had borrowed a long-reach wheel-puller but even that wasn't long enough, so I made 6 extensions for it and will return them with the kit as a token of appreciation



Both bearings pulled off quite easily, which means they will also go back on easy. The other method would require pulling 4 split-pins with only 1/8" of the ends exposed. I tried that first but NOT A CHANCE.

 

[towbar]

Most tractors with independent pto, the dual pressure plate used a hollow drive quill for the trans input and the pto shaft runs inside the input shaft/quill back to the pto gear train. Inside the quill there is usually a bushing that pilots the quill on the pto shaft and the pto shaft(the inner one) pilots in the end of the crank. Notice i said ‘usually’. Or there may be two pilot bearings—a small one for the inner shaft and a larger one for the quill in the crankshaft or hub

Yes, I didn't take the shafts apart, the smaller PTO shaft does run through the main shaft and the pilot stub that goes into the pilot-bearing is the reduced (20mm) end of the smaller PTO shaft.